Transforming Trauma | feat. Laurie Robinson Sammons
The BIO Girls Podcast
Mental Health Awareness Month
Featuring: Laurie Robinson Sammons
May is Mental Health Awareness Month.
At BIO Girls, we are committed to helping girls learn about and improve their mental wellness. In fact, mental wellness is one of the four key pillars of the BIO Girls program. During the month of May, BIO Girls Director of Programming and Research, Beth Salafia, will be discussing mental health and wellness topics that are relevant to parents and adolescents in our community. To learn more about BIO Girls visit www.biogirls.org.
Thank you to our friends at Bell Bank for making our 2024 Mental Health Awareness Month series possible!
Season 3, Ep. 4
Transforming Trauma
Meet Our Episode Guests:
Laurie Robinson Sammons has spent 50 years in the education field as a teacher, curriculum specialist, adjunct university professor of education, and for the past 15+ years has been a national consultant, training teachers and administration all over the world in best practice instruction. Laurie is also the author of two books: 1) Handbook for unstoppable learning and 2) One Story; Many Voices.
About The Episode:
Explore the physiological and intergenerational impacts of trauma, and discover pathways to resilience and healing through a blend of personal stories and expert insights with our guest speaker Laurie Robinson Sammons.
Listen to the full episode, on Spotify:
Resource Recommendations from this Episode:
Echo Training
Lynn Twist Podcast
Sound of Freedom Video
Books:
Gift of Post-Traumatic Trauma
Body Keeps the Score
ACES survey
Kristy’s Cause: Resources
Show Notes:
Dr. Beth Salafia
00:03
Hi everyone. I'm here today to do my second podcast with Laurie Robinson Sammons. Laurie has spent 50 years in the education field as a teacher curriculum specialist, adjunct university professor of education, and for the past 15 plus years has been a national consultant, training, teachers and administration all over the world and best practice instruction. Laurie is also the author of two books, the first one being Handbook for Unstoppable Learning, A Playbook for Teachers on How to Engage Students with Diverse Learning Styles. And a second, her most recent book, One Story, Many Voices, which is a true account of former students and colleagues who have been victims of sexual abuse between the ages of five to 18. Laurie is a native of Grand Forks, North Dakota, and now lives in Florida. She's a mother of three and grandparent of 17. Laurie is here to talk with us today about trauma, so thanks for being here with us again, Laurie, to talk about this really important topic.
Laurie Robinson Sammons
01:04
I am so excited to be with you, Beth, and it's always so fun. I feel like I'm getting back together with a friend when we have a chance to visit, and I can't even joke about North Dakota being cold and being in Florida right now. My kids say to me, mom, we were warmer than you today. And so it it's good that your winter has been shortened this year. Yeah, that's cool.
Dr. Beth Salafia
01:31
The sun is shining, which is really nice. We, I'm very happy to have you back here too, Laurie. It's, our conversations are always wonderful and you have so much insight for our listeners, and I can't say enough how much I appreciate you being here.
Laurie Robinson Sammons
01:46
Thank you so much. It's always a pleasure.
Dr. Beth Salafia
01:49
Okay, well, we'll go ahead and get started. So, can you start, Laurie, by describing what is trauma and who experiences trauma?
Laurie Robinson Sammons
02:01
Well, I think trauma is not a respecter, Beth, of age or social class or ethnicity or sexual orientation. You know, it, if we have breath at some point or another, we're gonna be struck with events that we're not expecting, right? And so trauma really is a physiological response to something that's happened when we least expect it. And if we don't address it can become intergenerational. And I guess on a personal note, I remember birthing two of my three children under 15 minutes. Mm. In the dead of winter during a snow storm. Of course, that was traumatic. It was traumatic. But now take somebody who has been treated unfairly, who's been bullied, who's been raped or neglected addictions of any kind, you know, there's so many different situations, but those traumatic events are ones that take a long time to process.
Laurie Robinson Sammons
03:13
And so we see, you know, visible trauma through people who have shame and fear on their faces. They've aged as a result of what's happened to them. But far more damaging are the invisible scars that happened when, you know, something has happened that is on the script of our brain and it begins to cripple who we are. And so, I mean, I've experienced stories of people that are 80 years old that for their entire life they've held the story of sexual abuse and they are diseased as a result of it. And so when you're talking to them about it, it's as if they are in it already. You know, that's really an example of trauma triggering. And so, I mean, there are some people who are, they just don't have damage cues. They don't know how to manage.
Laurie Robinson Sammons
04:27
They're brought right back into what happened years ago. And there are others who are so resilient and, you know, and so this is the beauty of what trauma can do. It can cause some beautiful things to emerge if we address it. But if we don't, it becomes an issue, you know? And, you know, poverty can be a trauma for families. And so poverty can be and usually becomes intergenerational if we don't say to a young person, okay, you were born into poverty, but you can rise above it. And, you know, so trauma has many faces, doesn't it? And it's what we do with it, so we all experience it. What I love, I don't know if you're familiar with Gabor Matte, he is an MD who's a trauma expert. And his definition of trauma is trauma isn't what happens to you. It's what happens in you as a result of what happened to you. I just, I love that definition. And so, you know, if we dare get beyond the trauma, it can be something that forces us to be much more receptive and attentive and present than before, but we have to get help with it.
Dr. Beth Salafia
06:03
Yeah. Yeah. I love that quote too. And I just wanna repeat something that you said that's, that's really interesting and I think we'll be really helpful to our listeners moving forward, is that trauma knows no bounds, it doesn't play favorites, right? It can affect anyone, whether they're young or old, or black or white Yes. Or whatever, sexual orientation. So it can affect anyone. It doesn't have, you know, like a certain group that it targets. It just can happen to anyone. And I appreciate that outlook too. And as you were talking, I was thinking about a recent conversation with an expert in the field. Her name is Ashley Turon, and she's at Resilience counseling in Sioux Falls. And we were talking about trauma a little bit, and she mentioned this idea of a big T and little T trauma. And so her perspective was that there is trauma everywhere in all of us. And, and we just have different types of trauma. So some of us might have the little T trauma, but then others have some of the big T like big T traumas that you were mentioning before, the sexual assault, the poverty, those are big T traumas. But we have to be aware and sensitive of those little T traumas too.
Laurie Robinson Sammons
07:26
You know, the word in itself, trauma means a wound or an injury. And, and I just think that's a simplistic way of saying there's emotional setback in the big T or the T. You know, we would expect that when we get a physical scar of some kind, or when we get hurt that our skin heals over. That's those little T’s. Yeah. But the emotional scars that are left from the big T’s, you know, whether, whether it's a story that's real or imagined, even trauma accompanies every single one of us in our home, in school, in our community, if we don't address it can really be an issue that creates illness in us.
Dr. Beth Salafia
08:20
Yeah. I think that, you know, I'm a very visual person and I really pick up on certain things that when we're talking on the podcast that people say, and so this idea of like that scar, right, like that scar that heals, like that's our little T you know, like you get a little scrape or you put a bandaid on it, you know, and you fix it up and it doesn't have the same maybe depth to it if that's the right word, but those big Absolutely. You can't just slap a bandaid on 'em. Right. Those are the ones that really become you.
Dr. Beth Salafia
08:59
Yeah. Yes. That's a good, yeah. Like that's a good visual for me.
Laurie Robinson Sammons
09:04
Yeah. The invisible trauma, oh boy, that's the hard one. That is the big T, you know, and when we experience that kind of trauma, Beth, our nervous system gets either stuck on hyper vigilance or it gets stuck in a low depressive point. So, you know, you see that ying and yang from being super reactionary to somebody who almost appears lethargic or numb. It's the depression process. I work with an 11-year-old girl that is just such a joy. And it is. I've had her at our lake place in West Virginia, and when she's full of joy, I can't tell it, I don't see it on her face. She's had so much trauma in her life that she's almost fearful to show an emotion, and then there's others who you say one word and it triggers them so hypervigilant, you know? So there's varying degrees there too. That's all dependent upon a personality. Yeah. But we know that if we stuff it down, it's gonna come out in a different way.
Dr. Beth Salafia
10:28
Right, right. Yeah. And you have no idea. And like you said, I think it's really important that we know that people respond differently and sometimes that response comes out right away, and sometimes it takes weeks, months, years for it to come out. So you all of a sudden, like you might think that, you know, you might be interacting with a child in a classroom or a program or after school activity, and you might think they just, you know, 100% okay, and then two years down the road, like this whole big thing comes out of them and, you know, you can't predict that it's happening. You have no idea. But it's, it's been there that whole time. So just being, I think, aware that that's possible too. So the, the effects can be delayed, they can happen right away. Absolutely. They way that's happened for years, you know, you can be experiencing those effects for so many years afterwards
Laurie Robinson Sammons
11:32
That that's such a good point that you brought out of, you know, how you see people reacting oftentimes in a classroom or even setting like a BIO Girls, we might see some child acting out and think it's a DD, you know, something hypertensive, and it could very well be actions associated with trauma. And so I'm just so respectful that you are, as an organization of BIO Girls, really taking a look at how to be trauma informed. It is so critical that we begin to really look deeper than the behavior. Right. And we wonder, we start asking, I wonder why not? This is what is happening, but I wonder why it's happening.
Dr. Beth Salafia
12:25
Definitely.
Laurie Robinson Sammons
12:27
Yeah.
Dr. Beth Salafia
12:28
So moving forward just a little bit, we talked about the different ages that trauma can affect, and right now we're kind of in that we're kind of talking about children. You mentioned an 11-year-old and we're talking about BIO Girls, which serves, you know, second through sixth graders. So what can you tell me about adverse childhood experiences, also known as ACEs?
Laurie Robinson Sammons
12:52
I'm so glad that you're talking about this, Beth. I think before I started doing research, when I was working with a number of people who have experienced adverse childhood experiences, I wasn't aware of the ACE assessment. And actually it's a free online resource, and it is an assessment of 10 questions that focus on trauma that occurred in the life of people from birth to 18. And the series of 10 questions that are used to identify something that has been personally experienced or witnessed in terms of violence or abuse or neglect. So the question, the first question is, you know, before the age of of 18 is, were you ever infuriated or insulted or humiliated by a parent? And you respond either yes or no. And as the questions roll out, you now then are asked questions about has anybody ever abused you or slapped you, or have you witnessed anybody being hurt in your family?
Laurie Robinson Sammons
14:13
So it goes from neglect and abuse into even questions about is there drug addiction in the family? Have you ever had an incarcerated parent? And so the rougher the childhood, the higher the score on a scale of one to 10. And what I can tell you is that 70% of the population at least answers yes. Two or three questions. Hmm. When you start getting four out of 10 questions, you're saying yes to, there's very likely that there's PTSD that's creeping in when you are above eight, on the scale of one to 10 saying yes to the questions, there is a high likelihood of heart disease, O-C-D, P-T-S-D, autoimmune diseases, there is a really strong correlation to ill health as a result of trauma that happened at a young age. And so what I love about this assessment is that in many states, it's being mandated now in fact, as a senior citizen, I went in for my yearly exam and my doctor here in Florida started going through some of the questions, do you feel safe in your home? You know, has there been anyone that has hurt you or harmed you? And the surgeon general of California actually has now has a TED talk, her name is Nancy Harris Burke. And it's just an awesome explanation of how doctors are asking some of the questions so they have a baseline to know whether a person is safe or not because the beautiful thing about identifying some of those experiences is that they can be prevented. Yeah. And if there's intergenerational abuse or neglect, they also can, you know, break the chain.
Dr. Beth Salafia
16:27
Yeah. That's, I think that's so great that it's being used more wild widely now than before. When I think of what I know about ACEs, it's always been, you know, applied afterwards. So like we're asking our college students and our young adults these questions, is there, is this something that we can use with younger children and is it being used with younger children?
Laurie Robinson Sammons
16:58
I, that's a great question. You know, I think just by the very nature of secrets that are kept with in families, when there's been neglect and abuse kids, oftentimes when they're asked, are you safe? Because they've been instructed to not tell the truth. You know, if you, if you tell about what goes on here, I'm going to see to it that you don't have the dog anymore. Mm. You know, I worked with a victim who, actually, the neck was rung on the dog as a result of telling the school nurse that her dad was sexually abusing her. And so, you know, poor young kids that live in the fear, you know, of if I tell daddy and mommy are going to be, you know, implicated in some way, and I'm gonna have to suffer, I've gotta come back to this house and I've gotta live here.
Laurie Robinson Sammons
18:08
The unfortunate thing about youth is that with the blame, and the shame is especially with, you know, physical and sexual abuse, if I only wouldn't have flirted if I only wouldn't have worn the red dress, if I only wouldn't have sat in the lap of my uncle. If and I think, you know, what I see in therapy for young kids is usually toys or games that are played, and then questions are asked during that time in a really informal way. So it's not something that elicits shame. Oftentimes drawing pictures of things about tell me about your home. And so I see as a common factor when kids are really open about talking, is that they are with somebody who they trust. And it is, again, what I love about BIO Girls, Beth, is that you start getting to know a group of kids that really begin to trust and feel as if somebody is hearing, you know, and kids can, can make us feel like, oh, you know, mom, get off my back. But when they know they're supported, we just need to keep at it because kids will tell us a lot if they trust us.
Dr. Beth Salafia
19:43
Okay. I'm gonna put you on the spot and ask you a really deep question here. So if we have a, you know, I'm thinking about the perspective of like being a teacher or being a mentor in our BIO Girls program, and you have that rapport, you have that trust with a child and a child divulges something like this, something that might be on the ACEs assessment, like, mommy and daddy hit each other or they hit, you know, me, or whatever. Can you tell like, our teachers and our mentors, what do you do in that situation?
Laurie Robinson Sammons
20:19
That's a great question. You know, and there really is no easy answer. But Beth, the invitation to all of us that are listening right now is we have to be first responders. And, you know, as teachers, we're mandatory reporters. The thing not to do is to take the matter in your own hands. The proper thing to do is to talk to professionals within the school, whether it be a counselor or a, you know, somebody who's an intervention specialist or authorities, but don't do it by yourself. Because what I have found is that, especially in the teaching profession, coming from it for myself and being a person who had to report, one of my sixth graders was being abused. She came to school with two black eyes and cigarette burns on her body. And she was actually, she was the toy odd Friday nights for her significant other partner of her mother for a gambling game.
Laurie Robinson Sammons
21:31
And she became a sexual object. And so it was devastating, and I was just newly out of the classroom at the time, but had I proceeded by myself, there is so much repercussion. You need to have law enforcement and people who are trained to actually move ahead and file charges or whatever, but it's a kid glove situation. We need to be listeners and documenters. We don't ever wanna assume. We write down facts that we see. And so, with this one lovely sixth grader, she spoke like an old lady. She had been used, she had been used so many times, and the stories were so sensational, but I documented everything that she said. So I think that's where we start as whether we're, you know, a leader of a club or organization, or if we're in the classroom, we document and then we find the appropriate people who are involved in intervention. The sad reality, Beth, is that so many of our people that are counselors are so over worked, and many of them are not equipped to handle some of these issues. Right. And so you have to find proper authorities because this is such a touchy situation, and the kids have gotta be knowing that they're safe.
Dr. Beth Salafia
23:13
Yeah. I think it's hard for the person in the situation to who's, who hears the child to contact the appropriate authorities for fear of making things worse for the child. So what can you tell people about that?
Laurie Robinson Sammons
23:32
Oh, it's the reason why secrets are kept. You know, I've seen kids and the girl that I'm talking about that I worked, that was in my sixth grade class, her custodial father. And, and there was a rotating door. There were men in that home all the time. Hmm. This individual was also involved with drugs. And so a deal was made that if he would go to an eight week course on parenting and have the child removed during those eight weeks, he would get to have the girl back in the home if he nat and told about people who were selling drugs. And so we see this type of deal making going on all the time. And so, again, I, you know, the, the preventative thing is before we see things happening. And 'm glad that you as an organization are saying, what do we do?
Laurie Robinson Sammons
24:39
What is our pathway of documentation and who do we contact? We start with knowing what our route will be and who the trusted few are that we wanna be connecting with. We don't wanna be stuck in the midnight hour and, and say, okay, we see these things are happening right now, I'm gonna take action as the counselor or the, you know, advisor or teacher. You need to make certain that you're surrounded with people who have the authority to press charges or remove the child. And the sad reality is that a lot of kids, the bottom line of the court system is to return kids to their homes. Hmm. Yeah. Yeah. It's a hard deal. Yeah. But I will tell you, the exciting thing is that there are rules and regulations that are now being passed to be much more affirmative and ratchet up penalties that violators are involved in the victimization. It used to be years ago that if a girl was prostituted at the age of 15 or younger, that she was labeled a prostitute and would be adjudicated, and the person who was the perpetrator would be let go. That isn't the case anymore. Now we see that the person is, has been prostituted, but they're not a prostitute. They have been violated, and we have to go after perpetrator. So we're seeing laws that are being passed that are much more rigid now, that's than they were before. Yep.
Dr. Beth Salafia
26:40
And I'm very glad that people like you are bringing awareness to the topic as well, so that it's out there more so than before, which also helps the laws change and, and people to step up and do the right thing. So I appreciate that as well. When it's one in four, when it's one in four females and one in 13 males, we've got to open our eyes. Definitely.
Laurie Robinson Sammons
27:07
Yeah, so to anybody who's listening who's not seen the Sound of Freedom, which is a video of, you know, young kids that have been enticed into trafficking, it is a must see it, it's a true depiction of what happens when people are groomed.
Dr. Beth Salafia
27:29
That's a good resource for our listeners. Thank you. I know you talked a little bit about this already, but can you go into a little bit more detail about how trauma affects the brain and body and how long those effects can last?
Laurie Robinson Sammons
27:45
Yeah. Well, what we know from research, Beth, is that if we don't deal with trauma, it gets stuffed and it comes out in the form of PTSD, autoimmune depression, cutting, isolation, cancer, and, you know, for some even suicide. And, you know, it is a permanent solution to something that is temporary, but our minds are triggered. And so, PTSD, you know, post-traumatic stress usually is one of the first conditions that we see. And so the body and and brain are definitely affected. And if a person can develop resiliency through building a strong family support system, have spiritual stability or connections to community, they, they bounce back quicker. But, you know, the, the Harvard study, I think that is really wonderful is that in terms of lasting effects, when we talk about it, we have a chance to return to normal quicker. But the Harvard study says there's power in one. If each one human being could be a first responder, when we see things that are actions of the body, we, we can make a difference. Just one human being bonding with somebody who is experiencing trauma can be enough to, to change the life of a person. So I encourage all of us to be first responders when we see something.
Dr. Beth Salafia
29:40
Yeah. I love that so much because I think that we get stuck in a, well, I'm just, you know, one person in a sea of millions, what difference could I possibly make? Right? It's like, you think about, oh, difference does my one vote make when you vote, or what difference does it make if yes. I just walk past someone at the store and not smile at them. Like we constantly think that way. Like we're just one little tiny spec in a million, billion specs. And so what you're telling me is that it matters to be one person. Like it's meaningful and you can be one person that makes a huge difference.
Laurie Robinson Sammons
30:19
Really does. It really does. And I think too, we're all wired to connect. Yeah. And so sometimes one of those biggest red flags, Beth, is isolation. We see somebody who's had a real vivacious personality, and all of a sudden they're retreating. And, you know, our body, when you're talking about the effects, the lasting effects, automatically our body sends a message back and forth to our brain, you know, it's the vagus nerve, it's called the wandering nerve, and it's constantly checking our bodies for signs of danger. And it reacts accordingly. So when we, you know, typically we have four main responses, and I'm sure people have heard this before, fight, flight, freeze, fold, fight is when that we have that aggressive response. We, we have an outburst that comes and we might see an extreme mood change or a real exaggerated response because there's no trust.
Laurie Robinson Sammons
31:20
I'm gonna fight my way out of it. Flight is when we want to take attention away from the problem, because we don't conflict oftentimes with flight, what you see as perfectionism, people who are overwork or overachieve just to stay busy and occupied, they flight, they do other things to be productive. So they don't have to think about what's really happening, freeze it. I'm so hurt that I can't deal with it. So I become emotionally stuck or numb, and they're scared stiff of what might happen. So they avoid it to make it more tolerable and fold. You know, the unfortunate thing for a lot of people, the folding is that extreme isolation and self-harm. You see, cutting that comes from it. They're just totally checked out. And for some who can't deal with it anymore, they take their own lives. Maybe an f that people haven't heard about is fawn. We talk about fight, flight, freeze, fold, but fawn, they're the people pleasers on steroids. They don't know boundaries. And because they're vulnerable, they oftentimes obsess with fitting in and their need for love which I call codependent, or a person who craves skin hunger. They crave touch and affection, and so they become whoever they need to be, you know, to fit in. And so all of those are effects that happen after trauma.
Dr. Beth Salafia
33:14
Hmm. That's, it's such heavy, heavy stuff there. And so now heavy stuff. Yeah. Like deeply. Yep. So we kind of talked about what happens as a result of trauma and what trauma is, but what about, like, how do we as teachers, volunteers, parents, how can we recognize signs of trauma?
Laurie Robinson Sammons
33:44
Yeah. Yeah. So I think, again, I can't overstate the need for documentation because you don't wanna put your opinion into something. So I see that Johnny came to school today very depressed. A person who would normally responds quickly, has now isolated. And I'm finding that on the playground. Totally. Is checking out, you know, finding, finding things that you see that are abnormal. I think what I have found, Beth, when I see a student who has been so preoccupied, a change of venue is so important. After my first husband died, I had such a difficult time the first year of losing him, thinking about where I was gonna sit at the Thanksgiving table, or, you know, I was aching so much for him that, you know, I couldn't put Christmas music on. I just, and I'm a Christmas grandma.
Laurie Robinson Sammons
34:59
I decorate the balls with Holly, you know. But when you see somebody who is traumatized in some way, the change of venue is so important. And to make things light with laughter is important as well. And just to listen and let them be your buddy or helper to divert the thought away, you know, it's for the reason why the, the methodology of EMDR, it's an eye movement. And you may have heard of this Prince Harry when he was trying to deal with the death of his mom and just burying it, because the public eye, they weren't supposed to cry in front of people. Yeah. Right. This is his mama, and he is a kid, a young kid. Yeah. And so, EMDR is a method where your eye movements are going back and forth, and there's tapping that is done on your shoulders as your eye moves. And the idea behind it is really awesome, because what it's doing is taking your mind, your overactive wandering nerve in the brain, and you're saying there's other activity going on. So I'm now concentrating on the tapping rather than thinking about my traumatic event. And so that, that change of variety, that change of thinking during the time that you are triggered, you know, it's called a trauma trigger. You divert your thoughts to something different.
Dr. Beth Salafia
36:44
That's actually like a perfect segue into my next question, which has to do with those trauma triggers. And we don't know what is going to trigger, you know, a reaction to trauma in any individual. Like, we don't know. So if we inadvertently do something, or that something happens around a child and we see them experience this reminder of their traumatic experiences trauma trigger, what can we do in the moment? You, mentioned, you know, a change, an environment. So what, what are some specific things that we can do to help children get through that specific moment of triggering?
Laurie Robinson Sammons
37:27
I think sometimes Yeah, bringing out toys, bringing out a game, getting them involved in physical activity. You know, I don't know about you, Beth, but I tell you what, when I sit for hours on end, my mind goes to a different place. Yeah.
Dr. Beth Salafia
37:44
Yeah.
Laurie Robinson Sammons
37:45
You get stuck in the moment sometimes. You know, it's what we do when we scroll through, you know, Facebook and all those crazy things. We're not actively engaged in something that, that gets our mind, you know, on something else. So I think changing the environment and physically changing, putting music on, getting them up, moving and dancing when I move my body motion is lotion. You know, I am able to kind of change my mindset. I lift mood and trauma triggers. When you're triggered, you are back in that moment. You're back experiencing. I worked with a young man who had been incarcerated for, he was outshooting his gun during hunting season, but he hit a trailer and the trailer was occupied with people. He had been drinking, and he had to go through court. I actually came as kind of a moral support for him. And what he said is that after the trial was done, which he was acquitted every time he saw a police car. He thought they were coming after him. So even years after him being, having to go through trial, he was back in the moment just hyperventilating and sure that the police was after him. So we gotta take 'em out of the moment.
Laurie Robinson Sammons
39:37
And I think the beautiful thing is the, the effects of trauma don't need to be a sentence on your life. You suffer through it. But if we can change the thought behind it, we can change the attitude and the mindset of it too. And, and find, and I would love to share with you actually some research that I'm doing right now in a book that I'm writing called From Mourning to Dancing. And it's about loss that I've had. If you don't mind if for sure if I could. Yeah. So this, it's research that comes from Edith Shero. She is a renowned clinical psychologist, actually. And she started this five step frame framework in working with post-traumatic growth from crisis to growth. And her parents, her grandparents were refugees, and they were Holocaust survivors. And so she had, she's dedicated her life 25 years of research, and she's come up with, with five easy things.
Laurie Robinson Sammons
40:53
And I'm framing my book around these, and I'm giving stories that kind of accompany each of the five steps. But the first one, and I'm gonna put it through the framework of me losing my husband the first thing is aware, I was crippled by the loss of my husband. I see kids who are crippled in classrooms when they've lost a loved one, a brother or sister or someone. So in the awareness phase, you accept that you're in pain and you admit it, and most of us don't have the emotional tools to deal with trauma like that, especially if it's unexpected loss. But it's saying, I am experiencing this brokenness. I need help. So the first thing is just becoming aware. The, the second step is awakening. And here is where I would say where BIO Girls and mentors come in, teachers, counselors, therapists.
Laurie Robinson Sammons
41:58
You become part of a life group or a temporary group that you build trust around. You feel safe in that environment. And you say, you know what, I'm okay crying because it's cleansing and I need to connect because I am lonely and I'm scared. I need a trusted person. I need a safety net. So that's awareness, awakening. The third step is becoming, and I think of your beautiful example of Eliana in your BIO Girls video of a young lady who comes in so anxious. And what I saw in that video is a new narrative being written, a young girl who was a first generation girl running a half marathon. And it’s becoming is saying yes to life. It’s rebuilding yourself with purpose again. And the anxiousness becomes gone because you're creating a new narrative and you're listening to the right script.
Laurie Robinson Sammons
43:07
The fourth step is being. And what I'm doing now is I'm listening to the right voices that help me to give a track to run on in life. You know, it, it's that you're becoming more self-aware and you're finding purpose in the pain. I will tell you now, 16 years after losing my husband and 11 first year family members, Beth, within six years, I was nearly catatonic in those years. And to be able to find purpose in the pain now, and to be able to have gone through hurting and listening to the right voices and saying yes to life again, I've been able to move into transformation. That's the last step, is where you have wisdom and growth, and that you actually see a reason, and you can hear the conversations that you had previously, and you could use it for good to help other people.
Laurie Robinson Sammons
44:15
I listened to a podcast by a lady by the name of Lynn Twist, and I would highly recommend it. She's so wise. She was a fundraiser for Mother Teresa in the Hunger Project. And she's so beautifully said, you know, in the first 20 years of our life, those are years where we're learning. And you know, really our personality is pretty set in the first five years of life. But we're constantly learning. But when we get to 20 age, 20 to, you know, whenever we decide to retire, we're about learning and earning. But when we get to our senior years, we are using our wisdom and our growth to leave a legacy and to leave the world a better place. We're the beautiful thing about all those stages from learning to earning to wisdom, is that when we volunteer, when we are able to take our eyes off ourself and work for a greater good, some really beautiful things can happen.
Laurie Robinson Sammons
45:30
And like you and I were talking about before, Beth, I love the example of the struggle that takes place when a worm is sitting on a dead stick and they're going into beautiful formation from a worm to a chrysalis, to a butterfly. There has to be struggle inside that takes you from the worm to the butterfly. If we, if we disrupt that beautiful transformation that takes place in the chrysalis, we won't be, we won't be the butterfly. And I think what happens in the transformation phase is that we see a clear purpose for our life, and we're confident that we have something to give. So yeah. I think we're all after transformation, but we can't get it right away. It's okay to have all the feelings. Yeah. In fact, we can't avoid any of the steps in our growth. We can't go from the worm to the butterfly. We have to be in the mess of the chrysalis. Right.
Dr. Beth Salafia
46:38
Yeah. I think that's, I don't know, like, I want to say inspiring because, you know, you go from the deep dark depths to Yes. The end result, which is transformative. So I want to say thank you, first of all for sharing your story and being open and honest with us, but also for giving people hope. You know, that there is that phase at the end that, you know, it is messy and it's dark and, but in the end, like there is joy again.
Laurie Robinson Sammons
47:19
Absolutely. From morning to dancing. Yeah. You know, it's something that we can, I, that's the beauty Beth, of why I appreciate so much the work of BIO Girls and organization, other organizations such as this, when we invest in other human beings, it's such a beautiful process to come alongside and to feel like we're giving Yeah. And it becomes a privilege, not a task, you know, it's, it's a privilege. It really is. I don't know if you've, you've heard of the Japanese a Zuki, have you?
Dr. Beth Salafia
47:57
Oh yeah. We do that in our BIO Teens program and we talk about it.
Laurie Robinson Sammons
48:02
Love it. I just love it. You know, those cracked pot when the cracks, the cracks let in the light, and when that silver and gold is applied to the cracks, how something that was great in the beginning that got cracked, it now has a new purpose, a new, beautiful, and more beautiful than it ever was in the beginning. Absolutely. So that, what this is all about.
Dr. Beth Salafia
48:30
Yeah. Yeah. I 100% agree. Okay. Well my last question for you, I think we've talked a little bit about it, but I, wanna ask it anyway just in case you have any other insight for us. So is there a way that we can ultimately control or fix the effects of trauma or, I mean, you mentioned all the stages, so is it just like we just have to kind of go through all the stages or what can we do or help in the process?
Laurie Robinson Sammons
49:09
I think admitting first that, that we've got an issue and then dedicating to finding people who lead us to the North Star. You know, when there's trauma, oftentimes we can't control, you know, it's a response that's happened that is unexpected and it's very hard to control. And so we need to find someone, something reading, you know, people to connect to, because isolation is the worst thing that can happen. Fear is a crippler, isolation is a crippler. And so we are meant to connect. And so I think we go from feeling like we are static in our sadness or our, our trauma. There is no easy way to get to trauma. You just have to, it's a non-linear process. But the beauty of it is preventatively, we can find things that bring joy and promise. And so, you know, I see programs like BIO Girls.
Laurie Robinson Sammons
50:27
It’s preventative in nature. You know, we're trying to give tool a toolkit to all of us. There's a beautiful program in schools called the Sources of Strength, and there are many others as well. But that's a resource that the idea behind it is if we can teach how to be resilient, you know, teach how to be respectful, those are attributes that lead to a more balanced life, a more normal life. So that when trauma does come to us, because it happens to everyone, we are more equipped. So the more we can read, the more we can be proactive in, you know, learning ways to be in charge of our, our our behaviors. It takes, you know, an awakening with people and programs and connection. To see what normal relationships are. Yeah. We model what we know, right? Yeah. So if I'm in a fun, a dysfunctional home, I'm gonna continue that dysfunction until I am able to get outside of it. So we need to model normal.
Dr. Beth Salafia
51:48
Yeah. Yeah. I wanted to go back to earlier too, you said the be the one person. Right? And so all of the research on resilience shows that you, you're able to grow and develop resilience if you have connection with at least one person. And so you can be that one person and help build resilience in, in another. And so that, I think that's a really good connection here between like the one person and resilience and just recognizing that you can truly make a difference in someone's life.
Laurie Robinson Sammons
52:29
Wtalking about a mindset, aren't we? There are so many people who have a fixed mindset. I was born into the Johnson family and we're a bunch of slugs. You know, we're a bunch of slugs. But, you know, to the person who wants to be a Johnson, that is gonna rise above. What I'm saying is that, is that controllable piece. We can have a positive mindset. The toughest organ that we have to work with is what's between our ears. And so that growth happens when we see that there's possibilities there. You know, if we look outside to everybody else's life, it doesn't help us a whole lot. The change happens when we look inside herself, that's when we awaken to possibilities. And I just wanna thank you so much for what you're doing in building resilience and building ways where self-esteem and self-worth, self-worth is so important. Absolutely. And that's a growth mindset.
Dr. Beth Salafia
53:37
Well, I would also like to thank you for doing your research and sharing your story and sharing the stories of others, and really just making a difference because that, that's what you are, you're shedding light on a lot of, you know, really difficult topics and it's helping a lot of people gain the knowledge to get through it, gain the knowledge to help other people get through it, and just gain the knowledge to be aware of what's happening. So I just wanted to thank you as well for doing what you do.
Laurie Robinson Sammons
54:09
I just appreciate the privilege of our conversations always be, this is what we're meant to do. Yes. We're meant to connect. And so thank you. Thank you so much. Let's play anytime I'm available to play with you anytime.
Dr. Beth Salafia
54:25
That sounds great. Me too. And anyone else who wants to join us, right? We're more the merrier.
Laurie Robinson Sammons
54:30
Absolutely. We love it. Yep. We don't build bigger walls. We build bigger tables. Right? Absolutely.
Dr. Beth Salafia
54:38
Absolutely.
Laurie Robinson Sammons
54:38
That's right. Awesome.
Dr. Beth Salafia
54:41
Well, I think we're, we are well beyond our time, but I wanted to kind of end with just, you know, first of all, thank you. This is our second podcast together and it's always a privilege. And then for our listeners, you did mention a few resources out there, a podcast, a video, some Yeah. Resources, surveys and things like that. Do you have anything additional that you'd like to put out there as a recommendation to folks listening?
Laurie Robinson Sammons
55:11
You know, I think the beauty of 21st Century learning is that there's so many great tools online. There are some fabulous, if you even put in trauma-informed classrooms, a whole host of resources will come up. One that I'm familiar with that actually have training modules is Echo training. And I actually took a class, I paid $55 for this beautiful two hour instructional time with a person from California who is working with kids in trauma-informed methods and strategies. And you can get CE units for those people who wanna do it. You don't have to pay for a lot of this either. You can put in a word on Google and all kinds of beautiful resources will come up. But I will say the, the book, the Gift of Post-Traumatic Trauma, it's awesome. And it gives you research, it gives you strategies. It really creates a beautiful pathway. And the body keeps the score is the other one just being informed of if we don't process trauma, how it can affect our you know, our physical and mental self. So I would say there are trillions.
Laurie Robinson Sammons
56:52
The other one out there is Christie'scause.com. If you go under resources in the research bar on that website, there's a whole section on being trauma-informed. And there are hundreds of tools that are there. There are books and there are also short videos that give really practical solutions, not only for classroom teachers, but leaders of groups and parents and grandparents. So, lots of tools and tricks out there. Yeah.
Dr. Beth Salafia
57:32
That's excellent. Thank you. Yeah.
Laurie Robinson Sammons
57:34
Wonderful. Wonderful.
Dr. Beth Salafia
57:37
Alright, well, before we finally say goodbye, is there anything else that you want our listeners to know or you maybe wanna leave our listeners with?
Laurie Robinson Sammons
57:48
I've shared this quote with you before, Beth, but it, it's really a life why, for me, and it's from Gibran. Let us be so connected with one another that when one weeps the other tastes salt. It is a mantra that I believe so strongly in when we can look beyond ourselves and say, how can I help you? We all become so much better. And I just think we're, we're meant to connect. We're meant to be responders to one another. So again, I thank you for today and I encourage all who are listening. To be that one person in the life of somebody else is very significant. It certainly is doable.
Dr. Beth Salafia
58:39
Yeah. That is a great last moment. So I think I'm just gonna leave us with that and just say thank you so much for the entire conversation and for leaving us with that, that quote. I think it's very meaningful and powerful.
Laurie Robinson Sammons
58:54
I look forward to talking with you again, Beth. You have a great evening and always great to talk with you.
Dr. Beth Salafia
59:01
Yeah, thank you so much.
Laurie Robinson Sammons
59:03
You bet. Bye-Bye now.