Navigating Family Talks | feat. Dr. Ender Raghib
The BIO Girls Podcast
Mental Health Awareness Month
Featuring: Dr. Ender Raghib
May is Mental Health Awareness Month.
At BIO Girls, we are committed to helping girls learn about and improve their mental wellness. In fact, mental wellness is one of the four key pillars of the BIO Girls program. During the month of May, BIO Girls Director of Programming and Research, Beth Salafia, will be discussing mental health and wellness topics that are relevant to parents and adolescents in our community. To learn more about BIO Girls visit www.biogirls.org.
Thank you to our friends at Bell Bank for making our 2024 Mental Health Awareness Month series possible!
Season 3, Ep. 5
Navigating Family Talks
Meet Our Episode Guests:
Dr. Ender Raghib is a pediatrician who has practiced in Fargo for over 20 years. He is the owner of Pinnacle Health Care, which is an independent clinic that specializes in pediatrics and family practice.
About The Episode:
Dive into the art of non-confrontational communication with Dr. Ender Raghib. Get expert insights on fostering mental wellness in families, dealing with children's emotions, and balancing assertiveness with empathy. Tune in and equip yourself with the tools for building stronger, happier family bonds.
Listen to the full episode, on Spotify:
Show Notes:
Dr. Beth Salafia
00:49
Hi everyone. I'm here today for another podcast with Dr. Ender Raghib. Dr. Raghib is a pediatrician who has practiced in Fargo for over 20 years. He's the owner of Pinnacle Healthcare, which is an independent clinic that specializes in pediatrics and family practice. He and the providers would love to have you come in to see them to discuss today's topic more or for all your healthcare needs. Thank you so much for being here with me today, Dr. Raghib.
Dr. Ender Raghib
01:21
Yes, thank you. Thank you for having me. It's great to be back.
Dr. Beth Salafia
01:24
It sure is. Great to have you. So last year, Dr. Raghib and I talked about the use of technology in families. And for our second podcast together today, we're going to talk about non-confrontational communication in families. So I'm very excited to have you back and to be chatting with you, doc.
Dr. Ender Raghib
01:41
Yes, great to be back, like I said. And thank you for having me back. This is a very interesting topic that we'll try to condense down into a format that fits.
Dr. Beth Salafia
01:50
Sounds great. So Doc, can you start off by telling us what non-confrontational communication means and maybe provide us with some specific examples of non-confrontational statements?
Dr. Ender Raghib
02:04
Yeah, absolutely. But first, before we jump into that, I think really looking at confrontation, right? What that means. And so I did a quick little web search here and, and into confrontation. The first definition that comes up is from Oxford Languages, and it describes as a hostile or argumentative meeting or situation between opposing parties. And then being the astute clinician, I look for other resources, other thoughts too, and not put all my eggs in one basket necessarily. So Merriam Webster defines it as a face-to-face meeting the clashing of forces or ideas. So you can kind of see that confrontation has this clashing, this powerful kind of thing, right? So when we think of confrontational interactions, right? They don't necessarily have to be negative, but they're two opposing thoughts, right? Coming together. And that's a challenge. So as any parent knows, when you try and start butting heads with, well, as any person knows, right?
Dr. Ender Raghib
03:17
We do this with significant other coworkers and stuff like that too. When you start, you know, butting heads in a confrontational way, right? It's hard to get anywhere because of the perceived threat, right? So it's no different for an immature mind or a, let me rephrase that for a mind that is maturing. It's no different. They just do not have the abstract or cognitive thinking. So they think more objectively, they may take that confrontation much more negatively, and that can really impact their self-esteem, that can impact their self-worth their self value. And it can make people angry. It can make them angry, right? For most of us, we want to be heard. We don't want to be told wrong. Sometimes we get a little narrow-minded with our opinion versus other people's opinions. We see that everywhere in our country right now, right? Very closed-minded, narrow-mindedness.
Dr. Ender Raghib
04:18
And if you're not with me, you're against me. You know, I'm right, you're wrong. There's not a lot of gray area. I say the grain salt because there is tons of that going on around us. Gray area stuff. I mean, right? Yes, we see it day in, day out, but when it comes to media, we don't see that nearly as much. It's just, you know, one way or another, left or right, republican, democrat in, you name it, right? It's across the board there in our adult world. So confrontational interaction does not necessarily make it negative, or excuse me, does not necessarily have to have a negative outcome. We just have to be receptive and have a degree of empathy. So non-confrontational is really the result of addressing those differences. Taking something and being okay with a confrontation, but knowing how to present it so we alleviate the threat, right?
Dr. Ender Raghib
05:23
So non-confrontational, if we use the Merriam Webster definition would be a non-face-to-face meeting. Well, we don't want that, right? A non-cash and of forces ideas. Well, we definitely want forces ideas to clash. Good things can come with it if we have an open mind, right? Right. So I hope your listeners follow that in the true sense, because in the bottom, at the end of the day, the bottom line, we're just dealing with somatics, right? Confrontation is not bad. We should be able to share and express ideas even as parents and children, but we gotta understand that childhood mind, right? So some big confrontational words that we often use when we're parenting and otherwise are extreme words all always, every time. Never. And we know there's rarely things in life that are always a never, right? It's always some gray area, right? Yeah. So we have to kind of go in with the understanding of a child's mind, where that child's at, right? A 3-year-old, 4-year-old mind functions differently than an 8-year-old mind versus a 13-year-old mind versus, you know, a young adult. So understanding that cognitive developmental stage of our children and how they process things, right? So with that in mind, let's proceed to the questions.
Dr. Beth Salafia
07:00
That's funny. I was gonna skip over the question because I had a question. Like I had a, a something in mind that I wanted to say, and so you're always a never really made me think about this. And with kiddos, especially like not saying like you always misbehave when you're hungry or you never do your chores when you're supposed to, really thinking about, rather than making it about the child, make it about the behavior. And so absolutely avoiding those like always and never, which are conditions that are impossible to meet anyways. But, you know, say like, your behavior is this or your behavior is that, so rather than putting the child your naughty, you are not naughty. Your behavior is naughty. So that is, I think as you were talking through the always and never, I was like, that is another example I would say of non-confrontational, but like still addressing, still being confrontational in a way. You're still addressing the problem, you're just changing your language a bit. So I really like the perspective of being aware of your language and avoiding some of those con specifically confrontational statements, like you said.
Dr. Ender Raghib
08:15
Yeah and when I talk to a lot of my parents in the clinic, you know, I address it to them in the ways they can comprehend and try and personalize to them, and then try and then relate it to how their child perceives that. Because we're authority figures, right? We're looked up to, we have some degree of control over our children, and I'm not necessarily mean physical control, I mean, like they're dependent upon us. Yeah. And those teenagers think they're independent of us, they're still dependent upon us, right?
Dr. Beth Salafia
08:51
Right, right.
Dr. Ender Raghib
08:52
For a lot of things, for a lot of wellbeing, but for a lot of their love and support. So, you know, I can make a parent understand how they feel when people say, you never, you never get an assignment in on time. You never meet deadlines, you're always late for work. Well, that's not true, right? I mean, maybe it is. Maybe they're always, ever since day one have been late, but the first day they're on time always goes out the window, right? Yeah. Right. Cannot always be late for work, right. Anymore. Right. And so understanding that first is, is important for parents. And then you can relay that to children because when, when our children who adore us, who look up to us, no matter what their behavior is, they're always looking up to us or guidance, and they want to be perfect in our eyes. And when we make them feel less than perfect by confrontation, that can really be mentally damaging to them.
Dr. Beth Salafia
09:49
Yeah. Well, I'm really happy that you started us off with some definitions because I think there's a lot of misperception about being non-confrontational and associating that with like a lack of, as being assertive or not demanding respect as a parent, or maybe even turning permissive. So can you, for our listeners, maybe talk a little bit about how you can be both, how can you be non-confrontational while still being assertive, while still being in charge, while making sure that you're not being too lax or permissive?
Dr. Ender Raghib
10:29
Permissive? Yeah, absolutely. I think for the majority of us, it's really understanding our boundaries and what motivates our behavior. Right? You know, when I am parenting around young children, nieces, nephews, et cetera, right? My behaviors is born out of love, right? If I didn't love, if I didn't care for this child right then, I wouldn't care if they crossed the street without looking. I wouldn't care if they wore their seatbelt. I wouldn't care if they, you know, ran outside without any shoes on thinking of our little toddlers, right? Yeah. After I wouldn't chase it after 'em, right? But that's not who we are as people, right? So our behaviors are born outta love. And when we love somebody and we're trying to help them and they don't listen, it's hurtful to us, right? Yeah. Like, we're trying to help you, we gotta experience, we got knowledge.
Dr. Ender Raghib
11:23
And sometimes that hurt then drives us to do things. Confrontationally say things confrontationally, right? Born out of that strong emotion, that strong passion of love, which then gets spilled into frustration to anger, to hurt, right? Sometimes to resentment as parents, right? More so with our teens and stuff, we resent that they have all this freedom, but don't have the bills and the mortgages and the, you know, the grocery shop and all these things, right? So we have to be internal to really wanna make, to be successful at making change, we have to really reflect upon ourselves and how do we approach our words, our confrontation, our behavior, our confrontation. So it really becomes understanding my own boundaries and how do I stay true to them in a positive nature? How do I confront a behavior, not a person? How do I confront a behavior?
Dr. Ender Raghib
12:27
And that kind of lose to what you were, you were talking about earlier. I'm angry at your behavior. I'm angry at, you know, how you acted, not I'm angry at you. Right? I think that that approach has been around since I started practicing and even back in my training in the, in the mid nineties. Right? We gotta identify what we're really angry at the behavior, but it's still worth repeating, right? But I like to take a step forward further and, and, and push to say, what drove my anger? What put me in that position? Right? How can I love somebody so much and then be so angry at them at the same time, right? It's a confusing thing till we dig into it and then it becomes pretty simple, right? If you love somebody so powerfully. That you would do what we do as parents for our kids or what we do as significant others and spouses, we love that strongly. It hurts a lot when that love is kind of rejected, right? I think that emotion most of us can understand, right?
Dr. Beth Salafia
13:34
Yeah. So I kind of wanna go back to something you said earlier and just make sure that everyone knows that you're not, or maybe you can address that, address this a little bit. You're not equating non-confrontational communication with a lack of conflict. Because you said earlier that like, it's okay to, you know, like we function as human beings, like fundamentally disagreeing and, you know, that makes things lively. And of course, like we can't just be robots having the same ideas about everything. And so I just wanna see if you wanted to address that at all. Like non-confrontational does not mean avoiding conflict or not having any conflict, right?
Dr. Ender Raghib
14:20
Correct. Yeah. Yeah. Because I think, you know, it's so easy to get stuck on somatics, and I'm talking about somatics, which is kind of a think about it, right? But like this is almost like that, that gray area, right? Like how you be confrontational but not be confrontational. Like, well, confrontation does not have to mean negative, right? That's one extreme. Right. And non confrontation doesn't mean do nothing, right? Kind of goes back to I think what we talked about at our last podcast of anxiety and how it wants to make us do all or nothing, right? Yeah. Those comfort zones with anxiety and non confrontation and confrontation are at both ends of that if spectrum of confrontation. And so, right. It is. We wanna work in the gray area, right? Because if I try to be non-confrontational all the time, it's, I'm gonna fail. Right? Right,
Dr. Beth Salafia
15:20
Right.
Dr. Ender Raghib
15:21
Because we need confront confrontation. We need conflict. 'cause it's a part of life. It's how we handle it, right? If I try being non-confrontational, these are like almost another way of saying passive aggressive, right? Yep. Non-confrontational, passive, don't let anything happen. Well, that's not necess situation. So I would encourage, like, it's good to be aware of confrontation, non confrontation, but like when I read the definitions, right, to be non face-to-face occurring to Merriam Webster doesn't make sense. Right? So instead of make sense, just be present in the moment, right. Be comfortable in the gray area. Yes. Right.
Dr. Beth Salafia
16:06
That's good advice. Be comfortable in the gray area. There's a lot of gray area in our lives and it's not going away either. So there's nothing we can do to, to completely eliminate the gray. So embrace it.
Dr. Ender Raghib
16:18
Embrace it. Right? I, that might be my BIO Girls 5K run t-shirt. Embrace the gray. Right?
Dr. Beth Salafia
16:22
Ironically, like we think gray matter, right? I mean yes,
Dr. Ender Raghib
16:30
The start of my fledgling writing career, it really makes sense. And maybe it's not ironic after all right? But maybe not, but maybe it's just perfect.
Dr. Ender Raghib
16:42
Yeah. Comfortable with a great matter so that, you know, that's the big mess is not to get too hung up on making sure I'm always not confrontational and make sure I'm not always being confrontational, but being in between and accepting when you are. Right?
Dr. Beth Salafia
16:57
Yeah being and recognizing that you're doing it out of love, like you said, like you're, that love is there. So be okay with that. Be okay with the gray and do it out of love.
Dr. Ender Raghib
17:06
Yeah. Yeah. Well see, they're co-author. We do this last time. We gotta get, get outta these books and I can write that book either.
Dr. Beth Salafia
17:20
So Doc, I'm gonna give you an example here and maybe you can talk me and our listeners through the steps we can take in this situation. So here goes, you just picked up your child from school, you received a voicemail from their teacher earlier in the day asking you to call them back. You ask your child what happened. Let's say you're driving home, you ask your child what happened, and they say classic nothing. So you know that something happened, you got that voicemail from the teacher, but your child won't tell you about it. So you ask a few times, they say nothing. How, where do you go from there?
Dr. Ender Raghib
17:56
Yeah, good question. So this is great, right? This is like self-analysis, right? You gotta know regardless of the age of your child, right? A teenager might know exactly what you're talking about because mentally they're much more mature, right? You're understand like, okay, third period, this went on a pretty major mom's probably gonna hear about this, dad's probably gonna hear about this, right? And elementary school kiddo may not realize it 'cause that happened in, you know, at 10 o'clock and they can't even remember if it's before break or after. And then they went to recess and they went to lunch and their minds just boom, boom, 10 other things like what happened, right? Right. They may not understand what you're implying, like I know, right? So that is kind of calling a pa a patient that's calling your child out, right? That's confrontational, right? What happened?
Dr. Ender Raghib
18:50
And I need a confession out of you, right? It's there. This is a great topic. Rent season, right? I'm Catholic, we do confession, right? And so this is like, it's my choice to come to confession or not, right? So in that situation, what is the parent's motivation, right? Do you wanna catch the child on a lie? Do you want them to own up to their actions and behaviors and be accountable, being responsible, and you're setting yourself up? Because what if they said nothing like you alluded to, right? Nothing. Well, you know, something happened, right? And now maybe they know, you know, and now it becomes confrontation and becomes non-productive from that first question, what happened at school?
Dr. Beth Salafia
19:40
That’s so interesting that the very question itself is confrontational. So yeah, instead of saying just, Hey, what happened? What, what do you say? So you know, something happened and like you said that the kid may or may not like think that far back in the day to realize it. So what, what would be a better starter for this conversation?
Dr. Ender Raghib
20:03
Yeah, absolutely. At any agent stage, like you wanna play your card, so to speak, right? So start it off just with the factual things. Give them a chance to discuss it, right? Confront. And so I would start that out with, I got a note or an email or whatever. I got an email from your teacher today saying that in third period, you know, whatever you tipped your's desk over and we're being loud. Do you wanna share with me what was going on? You know, give them a chance to explain, right?
Dr. Ender Raghib
20:45
So quick to want to put our kids out there. We want to put our loved ones out there, right? So if you, and if you know the answer, don't challenge 'em, right? Right. Because now you're confronting them, you're confronting behavior. Like I know what happened, right? So be factual, right? Because most of us, if we're getting given the chance to wiggle out of a situation, our natural instinct is to try and wiggle, right? Yeah. And this goes back to that fight or flight, that anxiety thing, right? In corner of a cage, I'm gonna try and escape, right? Or I'm gonna confront, I'm gonna get angry, I'm gonna be aggressive towards you, right? So if you are calm and you say, this is what's going on, right? This is what I was told, this is what your teacher sent, right? So I just like, I encourage parents to come with the facts, come with what you know, and then you can have an open dialogue. And maybe the teacher got it wrong. Maybe the teacher's perception was this, but she missed, you know, that, you know, the buddy beforehand had been flicking your hat the whole class, and finally you just snapped and went over. You know, there's a lot more that can be had productively by confronting non aggressively,
Dr. Beth Salafia
22:17
Right? So let's say you start out by explaining the situation. Your teacher told me X, Y, Z. I wanna talk to you about it and, and hear your side, hear what you have to say. Let's say the child keeps going with this, nothing, or it doesn't matter, they kind of shut down. What, what do you do next? So, I mean, we can all kind of, as parents, imagine the different scenarios playing out. And so that's one of them, right? The the the kind of brushing it off, like not wanting to talk to you about it. What do you do in that situation to you? You wanna have that dialogue, but you don't wanna be like too confrontational to the point where you're blowing things out of proportion. So what's the next step for a parent in that situation?
Dr. Ender Raghib
23:03
Yeah, good question. And again, being introspective, we've all been in a situation where we just shut down or didn't wanna talk about something in the moment, right? So it's okay not to push, depend upon the nature of things, right? But given a chance for the, the child to be able to express their emotions. So now we've gone from, you know, addressing and contract, confronting an issue positively to now we're gonna develop their ability to find the strength to be a, a, a self-advocate and vo a voice for themselves. Whether that's discussing their differences or their difference of opinion, or how they perceive things, or whether us being accountable for their actions, right? Because even as adult, I don't always wanna be accountable for my actions, right? Yeah. I don't always want to be held to that. 'cause it's hard and it's work and sometimes it hurts and sometimes it hurts physically and sometimes it hurts emotionally, right?
Dr. Ender Raghib
24:03
But it's a challenge, right? So we're not all perfect. So in that situation, depending on the severity of what happened or the action, you know, you may wanna say, okay, well if you're ready to talk about it or when you're ready to talk about it, right? There's a confrontational kind of word, right? When implies that they're gonna have to, right? I'm forcing them. If you're ready to talk about it, I'm here to listen. Right? I was making yourself open, but based on what I know, here are the consequences for the activity right now. You can't go to football game tonight, you can't go to sleepover. Right? And then it's, you know, of course the resistance, you know, that stinks what might be addressed with anger. And then you just go back to your statement, like, if you're ready to talk about it, right? There's my statement.
Dr. Ender Raghib
24:55
You keep that door open, you give them consequences. If they come back with negative, are you ready to talk? Are there things you wanna say? You know, you can paraphrase that and to open that door again. And if they shut down again right? You're not closing the door, you're keeping it open. Yeah. They're just choosing not to enter, right? Yeah. So it's almost being like a broken record, right? You don't like the consequences, then share with me, find your voice in power for yourself. Right? And so it's easy to talk about. It's hard for me to do. It's hard for all of us to do. Right? And it's, it's okay. And this took me many years to kind of figure out that, you know what, being imperfect doesn't make me a hypocrite. Right? It means that I'm imperfect, I'm human, right? Yes. So I don't always get it right. Right. I might talk about it in a clinic with a patient or on this podcast, and then I go and do it, you know, 30 minutes later. Right? But the more aware, the more I open the change and challenging myself, the better I get at it.
Dr. Beth Salafia
26:02
Yeah, that makes perfect sense. I also, like, as you were talking, I was thinking too, sometimes I'm not ready to talk about things right away. Sometimes it takes me a little while to get to the point where I am comfortable saying something about something or expressing my emotion or whatever. So it's natural, I think, for our children also to be like that. And so as a parent, just kind of recognizing that maybe they're not in the right place or space to divulge whatever they, whatever's going to come. And so just being respectful of that and thinking, you know, maybe I'm not ready to talk about something at this time. So if you're sitting in the car and you're having this conversation with your kid, just be like, okay, well like you said, if you're ready to talk about it, I'm here to listen and just honor the fact that they're not ready right now.
Dr. Beth Salafia
26:55
And that's okay. 'cause they're imperfect little human beings too, just like us. But then you say, it's also okay to maybe bring it up at dinner later and say, are you ready to talk about it now? Just kind of jog their memory. Maybe they are. But I can almost guarantee you at the same time that if when they are ready, they are going to talk to you, sometimes it comes out in Yeah. The most random time or place and just there it is all of a sudden. And so they'll get there. So maybe it's just involves a lot of patience on the parents' part.
Dr. Ender Raghib
27:30
That's a brilliant point. And you're very true. And when they do get there, we owe it to them and ourselves to make that time. Right? Yeah.
Dr. Beth Salafia
27:39
Yeah.
Dr. Ender Raghib
27:40
We want to be there for them. And so in this fast-paced society we live in, you have to be willing to say, you know what? I'm gonna call you back, or I'll finish this text later. Or maybe I won't even finish it at all. Right. Or this TikTok video is done. Right. Whatever. You had to be willing to be there for 'em. Right. So when they do wanna talk about it, if it's realistically time, a realistic time, right? I mean, there are certain times where it's like, yeah, we can't pull over on the highway and have a two minute conversation, a 10 conversation, a blizzard. Right? Right. But then make it a point to note the best time.
Dr. Ender Raghib
28:20
But yeah, making an appoint to come back Yeah. And let them know that they're valuable and that's what they want. Right. That's what they'll love. And so now you've taken something that could have been absolute negative. Right. Horrible outcomes. 'cause you like, what happened at school today? Well, let me tell you, mom, you know, I got to school, I had to use the bathroom, right? Da da da toilet. They, all of a sudden you got their whole synopsis when you really wanted the facts. So you took something that could have potentially been negative Yeah. And created a positive. And I think the, the biggest thing for us to realize as parents is that we're parenting for long haul. Right?
Dr. Beth Salafia
29:03
Absolutely.
Dr. Ender Raghib
29:03
So the more you do that process right, the better the potential that they'll find their own voice, that they'll be self-empowering, right. That they'll grow in their self-confidence that they'll, they'll be good. And here's my pun actually, or not my pun my plug. But by way they'll be comfortable with failing. Right. They'll be comfortable not being good enough. Right. Yeah. I think our, our slogan for the 5K run this year has had a little bit of feedback because of what it is, but it's not, we're not encouraging failure. We're recognizing failure happens and to be comfortable and let it happen for growth. Right. So the helicopter parenting, the smothering parenting, right. Those terms Right. Are exactly what we're saying with being comfortable with failure. Right. And not may and not disallowing for a natural process to happen. So many of us would not be riding bikes if we, you know, feared failure and didn't get back up after a fall because most of us were taking the train wheels off and riding right away without a fall or two.
Dr. Ender Raghib
30:23
So I think for a lot of us, we get so caught up, we get caught up by laugh because we're like, live in the moment, live in the moment, live in the moment. And then we get so caught up in parenting in the moment that we forget we're trying to set these children up for growth as individuals and, and mental emotional happiness and strength and self love. Right? Yeah. And that takes time. So don't get frustrated when the process doesn't work. When your approaches don't work, just stay at it. Right. Don't get frustrated if your child falls and scratches their knee, get back after it. Right. When they're ready, you have the bike ready for them to get back on. Right? Yeah. And, and also in that same light, I always encourage parents to be humble. Right? Our parents, our our children often look at us like we're perfect.
Dr. Ender Raghib
31:18
And that's a high standard that they put us on. Right? That's a high pedestal, which feels great, but is impractical. Right? So it's okay to be humble and say, I'm sorry to your children. Yeah. So if you mess up and you confront 'em and say what happened at school, it's okay. Whether it's in the heat of an argument that ensues, whether it's, you know, that night at supper to say, you know what, I'm sorry, I'm gonna work on this part, or I need to work on this better, or please help me work on this, whatever it is. Right? 'cause they love to help us. I'm sorry, I should have confronted you that way. Right? Yeah. Now I see how I said, I didn't say I shouldn't have confronted you, I shouldn't have confronted you that way. Right? Yeah. Yeah. And then you can often have a productive talk. And what we find then is that our kids absolutely love when we're humble. Right? They love, we're not being hypocritical and, you know, being perfect. They love being able to help us. Right? They love making us feel good. They love giving us, you know, abstract finger paint artwork and clay pots that, you know, are, that are not really potty. Right? So, yeah, we it's a good give and take in that sense. And you can take all this negative confrontation and make it a positive experience.
Dr. Beth Salafia
32:38
Absolutely. Kiddos are real, really forgiving. And also the, the whole role modeling piece there. So they're not only helping you and forgiving you and, but they're learning from it too. And their behavior is likely to change based on what they see you do because you're their role model. So they correct. Will learn from how you handle your mistakes and how you admit you were wrong or you were sorry in a specific situation. So that's good news for parents. Yeah.
Dr. Ender Raghib
33:12
Yes, it is. It is.
Dr. Beth Salafia
33:16
Okay. So I have another question about this scenario that I gave you with the what's going on in school kind of thing. So let's say instead of your child being non-communicative and just kind of withdrawing and saying nothing, stop talking about it, whatever, it doesn't matter. Let's say kind of the opposite reaction takes place and they get either really angry and start yelling at you, or they get really upset and start crying. So in that situation, can you talk a little bit about the confrontational, non-confrontational communication that should ideally be taking place there.
Dr. Ender Raghib
33:54
Yeah, absolutely. So again, you know, keeping an open mind understanding emotion and they may not always know what drives their behaviors. That's a pretty deep level emotional processing to get to that point. So acknowledging their behavior, whether you like it or not right? Is important. Not having to rationalize or justify their behaviors, but just accepting that. And again, taking that approach of, of what's making you angry. Right? Give them a chance to express more. They may not, right, but they may come out with some heavy stuff and they may throw, like you're always getting on my case about school, right? They may come out with some of those extremes, right? Some of those unhealthy but often utilized ways of arguing and fighting, right? So with the anger, that's a hard emotion 'cause there's so much energy with that, right? So we don't want to like, give that fire fuel, right?
Dr. Ender Raghib
35:01
So again, addressing it more in the sense of like, why are you angry, right? And leave it very blank, very open ended, right? And see if they express something, right? If they're angry at your consequences, then you can come back to, okay, well if you'd like to share more about what happened, right? You can, it's almost like this, I don't wanna say game 'cause that kind of minimizes a human interaction, right? But it's kind of like, it's really staying the course, right? And in the realm of communication and manipulation, right? Their success if we can pull somebody off their course, right? I was never in debate, but I'm guessing that's probably a big strategy, right? Is if you can get somebody off topic, right? And on a different thread right? You're likely not to have to address questions. So evading or avoiding, right? So almost like a broken record. Acknowledging that, acknowledging that, acknowledging that. And if you, you know, for the 10th time or 11th time or whatever you say, I see you angry. Would you like to share with me what's making you angrier? However you para paraphrase it by confrontation number 11, right? You see, but I think our emotions are high. I know mine are, how about we address this a little bit later, right? And then being comfortable just driving home Yeah. And silence, right?
Dr. Ender Raghib
36:35
But a lot of us don't like that awkward silence, right? So we'll do something that's hard. It's, yeah. And it takes practice, right? But eventually the conversation will pick up who are mines. So I acknowledge the behavior, recognize it, try not to, to let the conversation become evasive or off topic, right. And just come back to, okay, well I understand that. And if you're not ready to address what's making you angry, then, you know, I, I choose not to have this conversation anymore right now. Right? And, and with the, the sadness, the same kind of thing, right? It's kind of a manipulative, it's just another approach at manipulating. And I say that with a little bit of grain of salt because sometimes sadness is just the wrong emotion of the hurt coming out, right. But sometimes it's sadness to, for me, feel sorry for me, I'm the victim and I'm gonna play it your good nature to not, you know, victimize me more, right? To let me off a little easier to play on our guilt. You are so mean to me. You made me cry. Right? And you can take that exact same approach, right? I'm sorry you're sad.
Dr. Ender Raghib
37:53
You'll find out a lot of times when people cry, if you just continue down that same path and not get off track, not fall for that evasive or deflected technique that very quickly, that crying towards back to anger, right? And so again, just holding your ground going where you need to go and being patient, getting where you need to go, right? You don't need to spill all your emotional energy in that drive home, right? It can be addressed later in the afternoon, it can be addressed in the evening, it can be addressed, you know, at any point in time it can be addressed a week later. Right?
Dr. Beth Salafia
38:36
But so what you're telling me is that patience is key, right?
Dr. Ender Raghib
38:42
Yes.
Dr. Beth Salafia
38:43
Person who needs to work on her patience a little. I'm like, okay, that's, that's my take home here. Patience. Like really, really being aware of yourself, I think in the moment. Like being very aware of your own behavior and then just being okay with waiting it out.
Dr. Ender Raghib
39:03
Yep. And if you can be the, the more in touch, like if I'm angry, negative, I've a lot of energy, right? And even positive I wanna share it, right? I got all this happy, positive vibe going on, right? I wanna share with the world, I wanna share with people. If I'm negative, I wanna share and get rid of it, right? Right. So more as a, a parent or a a significant other, a coworker or a spouse, what a friend. Right? The more comfortable I am with my emotions, the better I can understand and keep my boundaries, right? Yeah,
Dr. Beth Salafia
39:40
Definitely.
Dr. Ender Raghib
39:41
So that kinda goes back to that, that that oxygen face mask airplane thing, right? Secure your own mask before you put those, the mask on those around you. I didn't, that's a great line they passed me by because I couldn't do that speech properly and I still barely. But in case emerging oxygen masks will come down, secure your mask, your own face before helping those around you.
Dr. Beth Salafia
40:07
Nailed it. That's a really good, like I am all about like those visual things that like, or those, those kind of off statements that people make that I'm like, I really internalize and start thinking. So now I'm always going to think like, okay, secure my own mask. Like secure myself first beforehand. Like got it, okay. I picture the mask coming down, I got myself all strapped up before I work on someone else. So that's a great image. Like I hope that it sticks with our listeners just as much as it's gonna stick with me. I love it.
Dr. Ender Raghib
40:39
I hope so too. I heard they once in some, some kind of psychotic psychological talk or something. I'm like that's a brilliant one. Yeah. Because most of us relate and it's so true, right?
Dr. Beth Salafia
40:49
Yeah.
Dr. Ender Raghib
40:50
So a minute you get that email and you see something negative or something that you need to address, it stirs some kind of emotion, right? How do I regulate my emotion? How do I put my mask on first before I can address it? 'cause again, if you want to help your child, right? You gotta put that mask mask on yourself first, right? You have to regulate your own emotions. And that goes way back to what we started talking about. Like we do these things 'cause we love, right? 'cause we're passionate and we care. And so if I love and wanna help, it's hard to say I gotta help myself first, right?
Dr. Beth Salafia
41:28
Yeah.
Dr. Ender Raghib
41:29
Clearly that's a beautiful thing, right? I die for my child, right? I die for my spouse. You know, it's a beautiful thing to have that degree of passion. Right?
Dr. Beth Salafia
41:40
Well, I think this is gonna be my last question for you, doc today. So can what, and you've hinted at it a little bit, you've mentioned self-esteem and things like that. Can you talk a little bit about the connection between our communication styles and mental health? So how can this or non-confrontational and confrontational parent communication we'll say specifically affect our children's mental health and wellbeing?
Dr. Ender Raghib
42:06
Our communication style impacts their mental health in tremendous ways. Positive and negative. Right? And the more confrontational we are in the sense of negative, accusatory, judgmental, the more negative impact, right? So our kids who are already struggling with a lot of mental health things, with the society we're in right now, you know, when they start having the world tell 'em through their social media, through their tic-tac to the, that they have to be this, they have to do that, they're not good enough. They, you know, don't have 50 likes. They video didn't get what, whatever. Right? And all of a sudden the person they value most in the world is sending a similar message, right? That just drives that anxiety, higher drives that depression side drives the feelings of of, of self-worth down, right? The confidence down. Right? And that stirs all kinds of negative and reactionary behaviors.
Dr. Ender Raghib
43:10
So, you can address and you need to, we need to address negative things in life with a positive approach, right? And that starts with being accepting that negative things will happen, that our kids will mess up, that we do mess up, right? And be cognizant and also know that you are gonna hurt 'em sometimes, right? You are gonna say things that are hurtful and that's where the humbleness kick kicks in, right? So, you know, patience and time are the, are the biggest things. Homelessness, humility, self-love, right? Yeah. Part of that self-love is realizing I am imperfect and I'm gonna hurt somebody in my life, right? I'm gonna hurt. Right? Somebody's multiple times, multiple people, right? And most of us will forgive over and over and over and over and over again, right? We're forgiving people, we're loving people. So if we're humble enough to recognize and, and have some humility and swallow our pride and ego and apologize when we've hurt, right? Yeah. We'll be forgiven, right? And our kids are no exception.
Dr. Beth Salafia
44:32
Yeah.
Dr. Ender Raghib
44:33
So being okay with that. But too often we bottle that up then as parents and we ride this kind of a emotional pendulum of guilt and shame for how we behaved. They should yell, they should scream, et cetera. And then we overcompensate by doing things that are, are like beyond like, you know, here's a new game 'cause it makes us feel better. Right? Here's, you know, you can stay on an hour late, right? And so it's like that old Viking ship at the fairgrounds, right? I use this analogy sometimes in clinic, right? It's a pretty fun ride if you like rides, right? You swing up with one side, you swing up the other side, but nobody wants to be on that ride all day long.
Dr. Beth Salafia
45:13
No way.
Dr. Ender Raghib
45:14
They end up being pretty sick and feeling pretty crummy. So it's fun for a period of time, right? It's fun to do good things. It's fun to alleviate the guilt and shame we feel at one side by doing something positive. But how do we find that balance, right? How do we get off that ride, you know? And and, and enjoy it when it's happening. And by enjoy, I mean accept it in this situation, right, right. When it's happening. But realizing I cannot keep this thing going all day long. Right?
Dr. Beth Salafia
45:46
You gotta hold the hold the the throw up down, right?
Dr. Ender Raghib
45:49
Yeah, exactly. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. You're gonna regurgitate a lot of things right at the end of the day if you keep that up, right? Yeah,
Dr. Beth Salafia
46:01
That's another great analogy.
Dr. Beth Salafia
46:11
Alright, well I think that was a really fun note to end on.
Dr. Ender Raghib
46:15
Yeah. Yeah.
Dr. Beth Salafia
46:20
No, it was not a fun note at all. It was a great, it was a great, maybe don't visualize it, but just remember that the ship and, and how we don't wanna be on that ship and what it's gonna do if we're on it for too long. I think that's great.
Dr. Ender Raghib
46:33
We end more like on like dipping dots and petting zoo. Like you get off the ship, you go to the, to the petting zoo.
Dr. Beth Salafia
46:39
Yeah, yeah.
Dr. Ender Raghib
46:40
With little dipping dots and you'd like Yeah, there's your photo op. Right.
Dr. Beth Salafia
46:44
There you go.
Dr. Ender Raghib
46:47
Yeah.
Dr. Beth Salafia
46:48
All right. Well, before we say goodbye today, is there anything else you want our listeners to know or you'd like to leave our listeners with besides some of the great images you share, share with us?
Dr. Ender Raghib
47:01
You know, I think you, you paraphrase it nicely, right? It's just being patient, realizing what your end goal is, right? I'm not parenting for the moment, I'm parenting in the moment, but my parenting goal is long term, right? So being humble, being patient, being swallowing your pride and humility and, and just being human, right? Yeah. And, and practice, right? Yep. Being okay with failing as a parent, and I don't mean like failing overall, right, right, right. But being okay with maybe a better term is being okay with failures as a parent. I did not get everything perfect, right?
Dr. Beth Salafia
47:47
Yeah.
Dr. Ender Raghib
47:49
And then also getting your children enrolled in BIO Girls, participating in the 5K, doing fundraisers, calling friends, keeping this program going. 'cause it's done amazing things for so many people and we wanna keep that going indefinitely.
Dr. Beth Salafia
48:07
Yeah. Well thank you for that. And I don't, I'll put in a little plug here too. We have lots of resources on our website for parents too. So in addition to this podcast, there's some free lessons that you can grab. There's some reading recommendations, some blogs and things like that. So definitely we are trying to be a resource to not only our kiddos, but the parents out there and guardians too, who are, who just need a little extra conversation or help or whatever we can do. So thank you for the plug. And also, Dr. Rocket, just thank you so much for another great conversation. I'm happy to do these podcasts with you, this podcast number two. It's been great. You've left me and our listeners with a lot to think about, so thanks so much.
Dr. Ender Raghib
48:51
Well, thank you for having me again, and I appreciate you letting me go. I get pretty passion, I get passionate a lot and maybe a psychologist could sum it up a little more succinctly than I do, but I always enjoy it and I just like, we're such tremendous entities and it's just, it's fun, it's empowering and it's just wonderful to help people. So Oh, sure. You are very welcome. Yeah.
Dr. Beth Salafia
49:16
Well, thank you. And, and we appreciate everything that you said here today. So I also definitely just wanna mention that I appreciate your passion, so thank you. And I look forward to podcast number three in the future.
Dr. Ender Raghib
49:29
As do I. As do I. Thank you.