Small Towns & Mental Health | Feat. Rebecca Undem
The BIO Girls Podcast
Mental Health Awareness Month
Featuring: Rebecca Undem
May is Mental Health Awareness Month.
At BIO Girls, we are committed to helping girls learn about and improve their mental wellness. In fact, mental wellness is one of the four key pillars of the BIO Girls program. During the month of May, BIO Girls Director of Programming and Research, Beth Salafia, will be discussing mental health and wellness topics that are relevant to parents and adolescents in our community. To learn more about BIO Girls visit www.biogirls.org.
Thank you to our friends at Bell Bank for making our 2024 Mental Health Awareness Month series possible!
Season 3, Ep. 6
Small Towns & Mental Health
Meet Our Episode Guests:
Rebecca Undem is an inspirational speaker, community advocate, and host of the podcast The Growing Small Towns Show. She is also Founder and Executive Director of Growing Small Towns, a regional non-profit organization that helps the communities in southeast North Dakota be places people love to call home through programs that grow their human, social, and cultural capital.
About The Episode:
A heartfelt conversation spotlighting mental health, community strength, and the nurturing of local networks. Rebecca and her honest insights lead us through the challenges and joys of enhancing rural life and mental health. Get inspired as we explore how to build a brighter, more supportive tomorrow together.
Listen to the full episode, on Spotify:
Resources Mentioned:
Suicide Crisis Hotline: 988
Show Notes:
Dr. Beth Salafia
00:03
Hi everyone. I'm here today with Rebecca Undem. Rebecca has always been passionate about two things, people, and talking to people as an inspirational speaker, community advocate, and host of the podcast, the Growing Small Town Show. She's put her gift of gab to good use as founder and executive director of Growing Small Towns, a regional nonprofit organization. Rebecca helps the communities in Southeast North Dakota be places people love to call home through programs that grow their human social and cultural capital. Rebecca, her husband, and three amazing kids, love their small town and the crazy good life they get to live there. Rebecca is here to talk with us about rural communities and mental health. Thanks so much for being here with us today, Rebecca.
Rebecca Undem
00:46
Oh, happy to be here. Thanks for asking Beth.
Dr. Beth Salafia
00:49
Absolutely. So, our first question today, what are some of the biggest challenges for people living in rural areas?
Rebecca Undem
00:57
Oh, okay. Well, that's a doozy to start with. So again, I, so just to give your listeners a bit of a frame, and so this is, this is just really important. I am not a mental health professional, so to speak, but my background professionally as an organizational development, and so when you mentioned human social and cultural capital, that work really is organized around the humans doing the work in a company, a community, an organization of any kind. So I have a lot of practice with these topics. And then locally, our organization, growing small towns, we actually brought our community's local mental health coalition under the umbrella of our programming just because it is such important work. So I wanted to give that frame of, kind of before I start to answer this question. So locally, I see, and I guess in a lot of small communities, I see a couple of big things that present challenges and some of this may be somewhat localized to kind of the Midwest and maybe agriculture in general, that that kind of background is there, is there's kind of baked into our culture a stoicism.
Rebecca Undem
02:19
Or somewhat of a reticence to talk about emotions for sure. You know, like culturally, we are just raised, I think about how my grandparents processed difficulties. And I mean, we're talking, you know, folks that went through really, really hard times. But it wasn't that we ever really gave voice or put language to the feelings involved in those things. So I think that's part of it, and what that ends up translating to is a, still, there's a stigma around mental health as a topic.
Rebecca Undem
02:53
So that's one thing. And then the second thing, and as much as I really try to always, always offer hope and optimism, you know, to the communities that we work with, the truth is there is a bit of a desert in services practitioners, especially in rural places. I will say, and maybe this will come a little bit later too, with questions, but the fact that we live in a time where you can talk to anybody just about anywhere as long as you have an internet signal, there's a lot. It's been very encouraging, you know, probably since the pandemic, the rise of services that are offered digitally, it really does make a big difference. So locally, you may have a hard time finding a practitioner, being able to actually get into somebody without a really long waiting period. But there are options if you're willing to explore what's available.
Dr. Beth Salafia
03:50
So it's really interesting. So as you were talking, I was thinking about the connection between your two challenges, so the difficulty with emotions and then the lack, or I mean the lack of availability, I'll say, of health services. How do you think those tie in together? So not necessarily the lack, but the not wanting to talk about emotions or not being able to express emotions. How does that make it harder or more of a challenge to actually seek out those extra opportunities that may only be telehealth or something like that?
Rebecca Undem
04:31
Yeah, well, I mean, I think there's a total correlation between these two things. And that's, you know, when I said we brought this mental health coalition group under our umbrella, you know, really all we are trying to do is normalize conversations about it. Like, mental health is just health. You know, your brain is the epicenter of everything in your body, you know, isn't it crazy when you think about it, like, it's so easy to talk about physical health? Yeah. I mean, it's fairly normal. Your doctors do it right?
Rebecca Undem
05:02
Right. Yeah. It's a fairly normal quote unquote thing to talk about. Right. But really your brain is just a part of your physical body. Absolutely. It just happens to control so much, not just mentally, which is like thoughts, but then emotionally, which is feelings. Yeah. So that's, so I think our overall goal is just to say, Hey, if you're feeling, honestly, if you're just feeling down, bad, sad, I mean, pick anything on kind of those, those feelings that don't feel so great, it is literally just saying out loud. Yeah. And that just be, that's because you're human. Yeah and not, you know, and not demonizing it. So I think that's a huge part of the work that most of us are trying to do. If we care about this topically, we're just trying to make it safe. Yeah. Psychologically and emotionally safe for people to express difficult feelings, challenges.
Dr. Beth Salafia
05:57
So, Rebecca, can you tell me how long you've been in this business and during that time, have you seen any changes? I know you talked about the pandemic, but excluding the pandemic maybe, or including it, I don't know. Have you seen any significant changes in the ability to talk about emotions or the willingness to seek discussions about it?
Rebecca Undem
06:22
Yeah, so I have three kids today. My children, their ages are 14, 12, and 9. Okay and so one of the biggest things that I've seen in our public school system is a focus on social and emotional learning. Like, there is, our counselors, our guidance counseling staff are actually equipping our elementary aged kids with some foundational things that tie how they think and feel to what happens physically. Right. Like, what you actually get outta life. And so that to me is a really optimistic thing. And I think it's kind of fascinating. 'cause I know it's really scary to sometimes to older generations just how accessible we are to one another, you know? So social media certainly makes us more accessible, and there's absolutely downsides to that. So I don't at all wanna, I'm not glamorizing social media. I also wanna make sure that we recognize that there's a positive that can come from it. And it's simply that you can more readily see that you're not alone.
Dr. Beth Salafia
07:36
Yeah.
Rebecca Undem
07:37
You know? And so I think that the youth of our, like kids that are in high school right now are far more willing to say they need help and to seek that help. Than any generation before them. So that to me is a positive thing. I don't see that as like, oh, they all need mental health because we're broken. No, we're not broken. We're just human. Right. And so the human experience gives way to difficulties and challenges and sometimes, sometimes hard thoughts. Yeah. And so that to me is something that we should, we, we should look to as a positive thing. Recognizing of course, that there's a, there is some dark sides of social media and we need to counteract those as well, but we don't counteract them by pretending it doesn't exist. Right. We have to find a way to proactively and productively talk about these things as just a function of being a person.
Dr. Beth Salafia
08:31
Yeah. It's really interesting too, like when you reflect on the past, and I'm thinking as you mentioned, counselors, I'm like, yeah, my counselors in school way back, you know, decades ago, this was mostly there to, I don't know, like provide some career counseling. Like, I don't remember any of them ever doing lessons in the classroom or really, like, I don't even remember my elementary or middle school counselor. So I agree. Like my, my daughter comes home and says, you know, my counselor had had lessons today in the classroom, and here's what she talked about, or here's what she read. And so it's nice to have that accessibility in schools, whereas I don't think previous generations had that. And so it does offer some normalization in talking about feelings and recognizing that a counselor, what she or he is there to do and, and how they can support you. So I definitely appreciate that.
Rebecca Undem
09:32
Right. Well, it's, it's a part of their education.
Dr. Beth Salafia
09:35
Yeah. And it should be. It should be.
Rebecca Undem
09:38
Yeah. It's fascinating because I have heard a lot of, a lot of people locally, they express frustration over this, and they say, that should be the parents' job. And, and I guess my, my counterpoint to that is yes and right. It is just a basic premise of helping children understand themselves better, which is a function of learning.
Dr. Beth Salafia
10:04
Yeah. And it's everyone's job. Right.
Rebecca Undem
10:08
I totally, yeah, I totally agree. And I just think too, like we, just because it wasn't a part of our curriculum when we were growing up, doesn't mean that it ought not to be now.
Dr. Beth Salafia
10:18
Absolutely.
Rebecca Undem
10:19
Right. So I appreciate that shift. And I'm literally saying this as a woman in my forties, my early forties, and I actively seek therapy for myself. And I grew, I mean, I'm back in the town where I grew up, this community shaped me. And a lot of it was understanding that like the, the severity or the drama of my feelings, like when I was young, it was very much just like, lock it down, shut it down. Like don't, yeah. Don't talk about these things. And now learning how valuable that depth of my emotional experience actually is. It makes me better at my job. Yeah. It makes me more empathetic. It makes me more compassionate. People can come to me with a good range of challenges, and I can hold that emotionally with them because I understand how to process my own stuff now. And it's an enormous thing. So for me, I just see it kind of from that lens of like, knowing what it was like to not have a good understanding when I was younger, and how much more open and I guess kind of loving generally my world feels now that I have processed it. And so I'm grateful, I'm grateful for this evolution for our kids. Yeah. I think it's important.
Dr. Beth Salafia
11:38
Yeah, me too. And I can also appreciate the, you know, just going to talk to a therapist because you're going to talk to a therapist, not because there's something majorly wrong in all cases. You know, like, it's just normalizing it and getting to learn more about yourself. And so, like, I appreciate that concept too, that it's just something that will better us as people, not necessarily, you know,
Rebecca Undem
12:06
Fix something that's broken.
Dr. Beth Salafia
12:08
Right. Exactly. Exactly.
Rebecca Undem
12:10
Totally. Yeah, so I tell, and the reason I'm so kind of adamant about talking about being actively being in therapy a is because I do wanna normalize it. I want people to know that through this work that I do and I also love to share what I'm learning in therapy because what I believe truly is, like if it presents an aha for me, it may give that gift to somebody else. And like, why shouldn't I help let more people benefit from the money that I've spent on my own personal therapy, I'm really cool with sharing what works. But the other thing too is just, it's a function of being a human that interacts with a lot of humans. I've shared that, that I, you know, I don't think anything's wrong with me.
Rebecca Undem
12:59
I think I'm just like, I do public sector work, which means my work has a pretty public lens. And so I'm subjected to public scrutiny sometimes. Yeah. And that is really hard to handle all the time by myself with no outlet. And so my, my therapist just kind of helps me navigate challenging situations. She helps me reframe things. That's, that's a huge gift. Absolutely. You know, 'cause we don't get to control what people do. We don't get to control what people say. We generally don't get to control what happens to us. And the power is in the response, and the response is personal. And so to me it's just tools. It's additional equipment. You know, you're walking around more equipped if you learn how to process things that happen to you.
Dr. Beth Salafia
13:47
Yeah. That is a fantastic perspective, and I appreciate your honesty and agree 100%. Okay. My next question for you, what are some significant health problems facing rural populations?
Rebecca Undem
14:06
Well, you know, again, not to generalize as if I'm some sort of expert. I just had a lot of conversations with a lot of people in rural places. Overall health concerns. I do think mental and emotional health continues to be one of the primary concerns. And it's driven by the isolation that we can, that we can often experience. And humans aren't meant to be alone. You know, humans are social creatures. We need connection. We need a sense of belonging. Also, maybe a sense of purpose. So on the emotional, the emotional and mental health side, I see that as a challenge. Access to good quality food is actually a challenge for a lot of rural places. And it's crazy, right? Like, farmers are the ones that technically are growing food, but a lot of the crops that are, that are grown around here anyway, where I'm from, they don't actually become, they're not, a lot of them aren't food grade. Right. So we're not actually creating the food that directly goes into the mouths of people. It goes into factories that make things that eventually get consumed. So, I'm not saying that obesity is a challenge for rural Americas, but just that general physical health quality nutrition, I think is actually something that we need to continue to talk about.
Dr. Beth Salafia
15:34
Yeah. Can I ask you a question about, you mentioned mental health and isolation are, do you know if the rates of mental illness and rural communities are comparable to those in urban or suburban areas? I don't know if that's something that, you know or not. I just thought,
Rebecca Undem
15:53
I don't, I don't know that right off the top of my head. So I would hate to misquote, I would hate to misquote any sort of a statistic, but we do know, at least in part, that certain communities, certain rural communities, have higher rates of suicide.
Dr. Beth Salafia
16:08
Okay.
Rebecca Undem
16:09
And so there clearly is some sort of correlation between mental health challenges and I would say unaddressed or undiagnosed in some respects. Right. Also, knowing that suicidal ideation can happen to anybody anywhere. So not to actually isolate it in that respect. But again, if we go back to where we started, if you live in a community where nobody talks about struggling in a way that normalizes it, then when you do have those difficult feelings, what do you even do with them? You know? And there again, you then you don't have clear ways, practitioners, people that you know, you can go to because those resources aren't readily available, then Yeah. You're going to see more struggle in rural places.
Dr. Beth Salafia
16:56
Yeah. That makes sense.
Rebecca Undem
16:56
Just because of that, you know?
Dr. Beth Salafia
16:59
So that isolation piece, can you talk a little bit more about that? Is that, do you mean like, because there are just fewer people there in general, so like, relationships are, I mean, harder and less in quantity, or like, does it have to do with physical distance between people, or what are your thoughts on that?
Rebecca Undem
17:19
Yeah, so this is interesting. I had a friend of mine on our podcast, his name is Jeff Sigler, and he does urban design, which urban, by the way, is just city planning. So it, even those concepts even apply in small communities. But he had talked about the fact that density matters. And so we got into this conversation like, so are we at more risk in rural places? Because we, some of us live, you know, so I live in town in my small town, it's 1800 people. Beth, it's not a very big town, right? But I grew up in the country where my closest neighbor was just a mile down the road, which actually is pretty close given rural distancing. Right? So we kind of talked about that, that fact that like, actual isolation is a function of distance being between you and back when we were homesteading, there was a lot more community that happened.
Rebecca Undem
18:20
You know, there used to be activities where an entire kind of the country folk, let's say, would come together and either let, like barn raising is a great example of that, right? Where they used to physically come together and work on things on each other's farms. And that doesn't happen anymore to that same degree. We're much more self-sufficient, kind of in our own families. So that means that we've established an independence from one another, meaning we also don't need to rely on each other quite the same way. Right? So some of that is just modernization of agriculture. Like there's a lot of things that we're more self-sufficient. That means we don't rely on each other, which also then means we're not seeking out those connections like we maybe once were. And then I think another factor, and this is absolutely anecdotal, so in no this is not statistically verified.
Rebecca Undem
19:15
Okay. But when I look around, like, again, is this more prevalent, like in the Midwest here in North Dakota? I think I kind of would suggest maybe so depending on what states we're comparing ourselves to, but there's a homogeny of kind of culture you know, ideologies. Yep. And so if you find yourself at odds with any of those things, I think that loneliness, that isolation, and again, it comes back to a sense of belonging. Can get threatened a bit more easily than if you're in more of an epicenter of where you've got different people Yeah. Melting pot, right? So I do, I mean, again, II never want to imply that I'm an expert in these things, Beth, I'm an observer and I'm in the heart of it.
Rebecca Undem
20:05
Yeah. I really do. I mean, so I do see it, and I even hear it in the way my kids, like, they're the second they see something different, even if it's just somebody dressing kind of different or maybe acting kind of different, they're immediately like, that's other, and they wanna like, call it out. So then we have those conversations like, yep, it is different, but different than what and different from whom, and what do we gain from calling out the difference instead of just like, celebrating that or embracing it. Right. So you can kind of see it play out that there's, you know, there's a conformity that, I mean, when you're young, come on, let's be real. Like, you just wanna blend in.
Dr. Beth Salafia
20:53
Yeah, for sure.
Rebecca Undem
20:54
You just wanna fit in, right?
Dr. Beth Salafia
20:55
You do. Absolutely.
Dr. Beth Salafia
20:57
That's really interesting because I'm thinking about my next question for you, and it has to do with challenges regarding the provision of mental health services. But I'm thinking, you know, as you're talking about this idea of the other, you don't wanna stand out, you kind of wanna blend in. And so that to me, I'm answering my own next question, right? So that's a challenge, right? If you're seeking mental health services, then you're, you, maybe you're standing out, maybe you're drawing recogni like attention to yourself. And so if we can use that kind of spin, that conformity piece, like in the opposite direction, so like, let's get everyone seeking those mental health services, right. And then, like, you're the outsider if you're not. So that would be a really interesting spin, I think, to take on, you know, the normalizing mental health. So if we're all doing it, then it's, that's not weird.
Dr. Beth Salafia
21:54
You're not the other person, you're not the standout person. Like we're all doing it and we're all doing in it together. We're just talking to people.
Rebecca Undem
22:02
This is a huge reason why I talk about it. And it's not because I feel like I'm some sort of like, influential person. That's really not it at all. But I do have a business on Main Street in this community. I've got three kids Yeah. In our school system. Yeah.
Dr. Beth Salafia
22:20
You're out there.
Rebecca Undem
22:20
I'm out there. I volunteer a lot of places. I show up a lot of places. And so I don't see this as like a giant mantle of responsibility either. I just think I am actually quite comfortable with being another, if it helps any one single person say, oh my gosh. Like, if she's doing it, then yeah. Then it's maybe, maybe it's not that weird. Yeah.
Dr. Beth Salafia
22:44
That's super cool.
Rebecca Undem
22:46
I just, you know, and again, I think about this a lot for my own children, and, you know, we wanna talk about small towns and like the potential implications of that. I've said to my children, you know, you are in a small school system, you are really in this Petri dish. And it's really hard to not just kind of fall into line and there is so much more out there for you. You know, and again, I'm not saying like you have to even leave this community, but this is where I wish that more of us could embrace the openness of the globe, because it really does make it a little simpler to live in a town that is as small as mine and still have some understanding of what else is out there. Yeah. Where when we, when we were young, I had no clue about some of the things I know now.
Rebecca Undem
23:41
And my kids are getting exposed to that way sooner. And while that creates a lot of fear for some people, for me, I'm just like, let 'em have it, and then let's talk about it. Right. Let's just like have real conversations about those things because they really aren't gonna be subjected to it in certain environments, but they're gonna eventually leave here, I would assume anyway. I mean, maybe they'll come back, maybe they won't ever leave. I don't know, Beth, that'll be for them to decide. But I want them to understand, you know, that there's something to celebrate and being different. And also, I mean, we're fundamentally talking about each individual person's truth, their authenticity, their honesty about who they are. And I just think the more we all can say Yeah. Like, look at that person do, they're doing that thing because they love it and look how alive they are because of it. Let's celebrate that. Yeah. Instead of call it out, shut it down and, and somehow get them to fall back in line. Right. That's, that shouldn't be the goal.
Dr. Beth Salafia
24:43
Right.
Rebecca Undem
24:44
So Yeah, it's really, really interesting. And I just think in a small town, it's hard, you know, it's harder in some respects to do things outside of the norm because there's just fewer people to distract our attention. Yeah,
Dr. Beth Salafia
24:58
Definitely.
Rebecca Undem
24:59
You know, there's, it's just the petri dish is maybe just a little bit smaller.
Dr. Beth Salafia
25:03
Yeah. That's a good way to look at it. So, okay. So being the outsider isolation, we'll say stigma also plays a role. Are there any other challenges that you can think of to either the provision or the getting of mental health services?
Rebecca Undem
25:23
No, I mean, I think that's primarily it. The reason practitioners don't set up in a small town is because there's just not enough people. Well, at least the idea is that there's just not enough people for them to serve. But if everyone was going, there would be plenty of people.
Rebecca Undem
25:37
And I mean, there again, as soon as you would have the resource, they'd be filled up and then you'd have a resource problem again. So it is kind of challenging, it's a challenging nut to crack, frankly. Yeah. And we talk about it a lot. And so I think when I think about what does grassroots efforts towards this look like, it's a lot of the stuff that we're doing. Like we, last year we brought in a mental health practitioner from rural Minnesota, and she was, oh my gosh. She was so, she was just so awesome. And she talked about it so plainly. And then, you know, we invite anybody to the public, then we live streamed the sessions too. So if you weren't comfortable physically coming in Yeah. Like, I actually heard Beth, I heard people say, oh, I'm afraid if I show up, then people are gonna know I struggle. And it's just like, yeah. Yep.
Dr. Beth Salafia
26:30
I believe it. We all do.
Rebecca Undem
26:31
So come on in. Right. Like, we all, you know. So again, just continuing to kind of affirm and validate that human experience that's, that is so much a part of what I am deeply passionate about.
Dr. Beth Salafia
26:45
Yeah. Well, I love that you gave the opportunity for people to, to join how they felt comfortable at first until, until we can make it more comfortable. Like, it's so great that they had the opportunity to just kinda listen in, you know, virtually or whatever.
Rebecca Undem
27:00
And they were viewed thousands of times, by the way. Nice. So we know that people need the topic.
Dr. Beth Salafia
27:08
Definitely.
Rebecca Undem
27:09
So yeah. It's nice to be able to do that because I also, I really do understand and appreciate that the feelings are real, you know, the concern, the worry, the doubt it's real. So like you said in the meantime, until we, we can get until it just becomes like, we don't even discuss it as mental health and it's just health.
Dr. Beth Salafia
27:31
Yeah till we get there. It's part of our, you know, checkups, like going to the doctor. Right. We have to have our checks, so why don't we go get our mental wellness checks as well.
Rebecca Undem
27:39
Exactly. Yeah. Exactly. We do it with so many things, right? Teeth. You know? We go up there teeth cleans twice a year, you know, a lot of us, depending on what you've got for support for that, but Yeah. And your brain, you just think about your brain actually controls everything in your body. Your body physically won't work if your brain doesn't work. Yeah. Well, so the mental and emotional functioning of your brain, why do we treat it so differently?
Dr. Beth Salafia
28:08
That's such a, such a good question. When you start going down that path, you're like, why don't I take care of my brain better?
Rebecca Undem
28:14
Right. Right. Why? Yeah, it is. It's fascinating. And so again, it's, I think it's all just about how we position it, how we talk about it, and man, like it's, that's part of it is the human experience. It's gonna be hard because we're human. Like my therapist, I'll just, her phrase for me is like, yeah, Rebecca, it's tricky down here. And I just like, I love that so much. I just like, that's such a beautiful way to frame this out. Like, it's tricky because we're human and humans are they all we have, there's such a range, you know? Just like there's a range of physical bodies and like physicality of humans. There's a huge range in emotional and mental capacities too. Like, it's just different. Everybody's a little bit different. And the idea that every single person is completely uniquely made, like no wonder we struggle sometimes to relate to each other. We're not the same.
Dr. Beth Salafia
29:07
Right. Yeah.
Rebecca Undem
29:08
That makes us the same. And I love that. I just think that's, so it's like the most unifying thing of all time.
Dr. Beth Salafia
29:19
So there aren't a lot of resources available to people in rural communities. So what would you suggest they do? You know, I think providing telehealth is great and those opportunities to like, for webinars or live stream or things like that. But what would you recommend to someone who lives in a rural community and and experiences the lack of availability in terms of counseling, therapy, brain health, whatever, what would you recommend they do? Or how do they get what they need?
Rebecca Undem
29:52
Well, I mean, I think it really depends on the acuteness of the struggle. You know, I mean, like acute mental health crises, like an actual crisis. There are very good, and I don't know if you do show notes, do you do show notes for this podcast, Beth?
Dr. Beth Salafia
30:10
No, but we can, we can.
Rebecca Undem
30:11
Well, I'm only saying like right off the top of my head, I hate to say this like publicly, I don't remember but there's, there are national hotline numbers Yep. For actual suicidal ideation. Right. Knowing those, which means you can access it anywhere, as long as you have a phone, you know, that it's different. And you can actually, if you were having a suicidal ideation, a crisis of that nature, you actually can call 9 1 1. And I just don't know that everybody understands that or even knows that. Right. Well it's because that's, it's an actual crisis.
Dr. Beth Salafia
30:48
Yes, it is. It's the same as breaking a bone, right?
Rebecca Undem
30:50
It is. Yeah. Right. So just first of all, it's just to, again, it's like back to, I hate to say we're just back to normalizing it, but we really are back to helping people understand that it's not something to mess with. Just like if you, you know, had some sort of physical crisis, you would call 9 1 1 without thinking twice. You should do the same on the mental health side. Yeah. Then if we're talking just kind of regular maintenance, I think a lot of times a good place to start is if you have any local medical providers of any nature in your community, go and ask them what's available to them. Because a lot of times the mental or the telehealth services will be made available to you through your medical providers.
Dr. Beth Salafia
31:34
Okay.
Rebecca Undem
31:35
There again, if your town is too small and you don't have a hospital, you don't have a clinic, I would recommend that you actually go to your next largest community and then have that conversation there. Because if you're that isolated that you don't have any sort of medical provider, more than likely telehealth is going to be what your option is. But I do therapy over telehealth. Okay. I do it. So I literally, and again, like I do it because I think it's important for people to understand that, you know, I'm no different. And people need to be patient because you may not connect with your first provider. Like it's really no different than finding a doctor you feel comfortable with. You may have to like cycle through a couple of therapists until you find one that feels really good to you.
Rebecca Undem
32:27
And that doesn't mean something's wrong with you if you don't connect with the first one that you're matched with. Absolutely. You know, like if you do like a better help.com or something like that, you might not like 'em the first time. Be honest about that. Don't worry about it. They, they understand that and they don't expect you to just put aside your feeling. You know, they're mental health practitioners. Right. They want you to feel really safe and secure and matched. For sure. So I think sometimes it's just also setting that expectation. And so what I hate to say, Beth, if you're in a very rural community, you might have to work a little harder Yeah. To get the support that you need. But it is out there.
Dr. Beth Salafia
33:07
Yeah.
Rebecca Undem
33:08
It is out there.
Dr. Beth Salafia
33:09
I think that's really great advice. I mean, for anyone rural or not, like, just being okay knowing that someone might not be the right fit for you when you go to talk. Just, just like you said with a doctor, like, I haven't always gone to the same doctor or your doctor leaves and you have to find a new one and then it's really hard. It's the same with anything. So you don't have to worry about it. It's not you like it's a compatibility issue and that's fine. You need to feel safe, you need to feel comfortable, you need to be able to communicate. And so, I don't know, like, I don't wanna use the term shopping around, but that's, you might have to do that. You might have to find, try one or two or three or four or five people until you really hit that person that like you connect with and can help you.
Rebecca Undem
33:54
Because it won't, if that trust isn't there or the foundation isn't strong enough that you can build a trusting relationship with that person, you'll never take their advice the same. Yeah. It's, really, really interesting because therapy isn't just like, it's not just talking it out. You're actually gonna get resources, ways of thinking. Like I'd said reframing is such a big deal. And so you have to be, you have to believe that that person has your best interest at heart. You have to feel like you said, a connection with them. Those are just, those are just truths. And so to know that there's nothing wrong with you. Yeah. If the first one doesn't feel right, that's okay. Definitely. Just definitely keep trying. And then I would say the other recommendation that I would have is really analyzing the quality of the relationships in your actual life.
Rebecca Undem
34:48
So not just the mental health relationship, but who do you have to turn to, because that's what we're, so interestingly enough, we just recently did this kind of community building session here in Oaks and we talked about the importance of building strong social networks. And so oftentimes we think about social networks as like, when we use the word network, we assume there's like hundreds of people in when really we're talking about you and a relationship with at least one other key person. You know, you don't have to have a hundred friends. Right. Everybody needs at least one person that they can turn to. And your therapist isn't your friend. Exactly. It's not the same as having somebody that you're actually doing life with.
Rebecca Undem
35:38
So, you know, thinking about that and where do you find people that think, feel, believe the same way that you do. You might not find 'em in your backyard if you're in a really, really small town. Yeah. They are out there though. And this is where again, the internet actually does help, I've met some amazing people on the internet, Beth. Absolutely. Like I say that to people like there's fan 'cause they're just humans like you. Yeah. Doing life like you. Yeah. So I would encourage people think about like, what's an area of interest that you would love to connect with a person about? Let's say it's hiking and it's just a random example. There are hundreds of thousands, I bet there's tens of thousands. And here again it's anecdotal, I didn't look this up, but like are you talking like Facebook groups? Are you kidding? There's probably so many Yeah. Places where you could go. And so again, we might have to work a little harder to find and nurture and like maintain those relationships, but they are as important as they are to anybody in a big city. It doesn't matter the context. We're humans and we need to have these things.
Dr. Beth Salafia
36:41
Yeah.
Rebecca Undem
36:42
So if you don't naturally find that in your community, seek it out. Yes. Because it's important to your overall wellbeing Yeah. That you feel supported and connected.
Dr. Beth Salafia
36:54
Yeah. And don't be afraid to put a little extra effort into it. Like you said, you might have to work a little harder, but it, it's worth it.
Rebecca Undem
37:02
It's worth it. Yeah. It's worth it. Yeah. For sure.
Dr. Beth Salafia
37:05
Okay, so let me get to my next question here. What are some protective factors? You think? We've talked a little bit about risk factors and health problems, but what are some protective factors that people in rural communities have?
Rebecca Undem
37:20
Well, it's interesting. We just talked about one social, social networks. Yep. Like having, having a support system of some sort. Places to look for that. Maybe a church, if you have a faith community that you haven't tapped into, that's a place to look. As crazy as it sounds, if your community has a chamber of commerce, you can kind of find out, often they're a place to go to find out the civic and community engagement groups. You know, there's clubs, there's, you know, committees, there's things, and that sounds like work, but it actually, again, if the interest is what's driving your relationship or connection to it, then that's, you can find a sense of belonging and a sense of connection there. Another thing is just kind of like we're talking about a, a general, a protective factor is honestly having a generally positive outlook. Like being able to frame challenges for what they are, instead of something to completely derail your entire life that their adversity actually can make a stronger. Right. But those are, those are tools.
Dr. Beth Salafia
38:27
Yes.
Rebecca Undem
38:28
You know, those are tools and everybody, so I think one of the challenges is that when these tools don't work is when we tell ourselves that we don't need them. These are just fundamental things that every human needs. And so, I mean, those are a couple I think of the big ones really. Yeah. Is that kind of that person understanding of personal agency and then connection with other people.
Dr. Beth Salafia
38:56
Yeah. And I think viewing it as a tool is helpful too. I mean, if we think about parents wanting to equip their children with the tools that they might need, there are, there are ways to do this, obviously therapy, obviously school counseling, BIO Girls, as we're here on a BIO Girls podcast, like we work on those tools too. So as a parent, maybe you have to work a little bit harder to, to find these resources to help your children get these tools. But they're out there too. And so Rebecca, we appreciate your work with BIO Girls too, to get it into the Oaks community as a tool that our kids can have growing up. My very last question then for you is, I know we're, we're going a little bit beyond our timeframe here. Here. That's alright. Yeah, that's alright. Right. It's been a great conversation and so I'm just gonna keep going if that's okay. Totally. Okay. So my last question for you, Rebecca, is how can rural communities come together to support mental wellness? What are your, what are some overall recommendations that you would give to our listeners?
Rebecca Undem
40:06
Well, I try, so I tend to be like truly kind of a big dreamer, like a big thinker. My ideas usually aren't small, which is unfortunate. 'cause I do then think, okay, so if we're talking about how do we make changes in a way that feels kind of grassroots? I think sometimes it's as simple as finding one other person that wants to come alongside you and do something you, and the other thing about it too is like, there are so many ways you can actually infuse emotional and social wellbeing into stuff that's already happening. And I think for every individual person it's thinking about what messages do you wish were being said more? And then being the messenger of those stories or messages. Right? Like, so thinking about how are you showing up in your community? If the community needs more appreciation, then be the person that does the appreciating.
Dr. Beth Salafia
41:12
Love that. Yeah.
Rebecca Undem
41:13
You know, like actually be the change you wanna see in the world. Like that's, I think that's what every single one of us can do. And then if you can find a couple other people that wanna be a part of that same thing, then you get like a little bit of a movement created.
Rebecca Undem
41:28
And it doesn't have to actually be a whole lot more complicated than that. I mean, if you wanna make it bigger, you certainly can, but that's where it starts. Is each individual person giving out what they wish they saw more of?
Dr. Beth Salafia
41:44
Yeah. I just love that. I think that that's, I mean, you said you were a big dreamer, but that's starting small, right? That's starting at the person and then seeing what happens from there. I love that.
Rebecca Undem
41:57
Well, and I think if you're a person that thinks about these things, like to any degree, then mostly I just want you to know that your behavior and your actions can make an enormous difference. I just think that's, that's the value of being human is every single one of us we're equipped in our own ways, like with our own skills and our own talents. And if we just decide, like, and again, you could take it a week at a time. Like this week I'm gonna focus on doing more of this next week I'm gonna pick a different thing. And if you actually committed to doing that, you would make an impact in 52 different ways.
Dr. Beth Salafia
42:35
Yeah.
Rebecca Undem
42:36
Over the course of a year, which is pretty incredible.
Dr. Beth Salafia
42:39
Yeah. I read a story about a young man who jumped off a bridge and he before, I mean he survived and I am sure you know the story and people know the story, but when, when I read a little bit deeper, he was on that bridge for a long time beforehand and he was just contemplating what he should do. And he said that if one person had stopped to ask him if he was okay or what he was doing, it would've changed his life. So like one person can absolutely make a difference. And so he just stood there on the bridge for a really long time and no one approached him. So you can be that one person, you can be that one person on the bridge, you can be that one person in your rural community. You can be that one person anywhere that makes a difference for one other person, 300 other people, 2000 people, whatever it is. So like you said, be the change.
Rebecca Undem
43:35
Yeah. Beth, I love that so much. And I wanna add something to this because this is something that I think, again, we may be, and I don't know if we see it more in rural communities, but I know we experience it here. It's that worry about that concern about offending somebody because we're asking if they're all right. Yeah. And what we talked about a lot in our mental health coalition group when we were really talking about these things, and I'm gonna be honest, Oaks, our small community, we actually have seen a lot of suicide. And every single time that a suicide happens, it is absolutely devastating just in every way. And so what we talked a lot about is that we'd rather have an offended friend than a dead one.
Dr. Beth Salafia
44:22
Absolutely. 100.
Rebecca Undem
44:23
And so I think, you know, that's the other thing too. Trust your gut, trust your instincts, trust your intuition. And check in on the people Yes. That you love. You don't have to, you don't have to take on the weight of everybody that lives in your community 'cause that's overwhelming and you'll burn out and it's not good for you. Right. But if you just keep an eye on the five people that you love the most and make sure that they're okay, that they're handling things well and just check in on 'em. That makes an enormous difference, Beth, if every single person did that, we've talked about this a lot again, like I get really passionate about this because we talk a lot about the people that fall through the cracks and at some point you have to go, okay, well every single one of these people is hopefully loved by one other human. And so if we just took care of who was right near us.
Rebecca Undem
45:19
It would make such a difference. And then like we were talking about before then this idea of bigger, like changes that you wanna see, give that kind of freely to everybody. Appreciate people thank people, look people in the eye. I think if there's one thing that social media and kind of the advent of everything digital has done to us is it's kind of weakened our interpersonal skills, you know, like face-to-face interactions. And so I really always do encourage people really, you know, make the most of those. Yeah. When you're in person in real time with people,
Dr. Beth Salafia
45:53
Definitely
Rebecca Undem
45:54
Look at them. Yeah. Ask them how they're doing. Yes. And take the time to listen to the answer. Yes. And so these may seem small, but I think if more of us committed to doing some of these things, I think we would see the collective wellness of all of us improve.
Dr. Beth Salafia
46:13
Yeah, I agree. I agree. And I think it leaves us in this podcast with something to do. We have a mission now. Everybody reach out to your people and just stay connected and check in. And that's like one tangible that I think we can start and we can do that really easily. So I would highly recommend to all of our listeners to do that. Make it a goal that is one way and rural community or not, we can right band together and support each other and really help the movement towards increasing our mental wellness.
Rebecca Undem
46:48
Absolutely.
Dr. Beth Salafia
46:50
Well, Rebecca, I cannot say how much I appreciate you being here today and for our conversation. It's been really insightful and I think really helpful to me and our listeners. You've educated us a lot and given us some good tips to live by before we say goodbye, is there anything else you want our listeners to know or you wanna leave our listeners with?
Rebecca Undem
47:12
Well, I think if I was gonna say one more thing, it would simply be that BIO stands for beautiful inside and out. And that's what we're talking about. You know, we're really talking about helping every single person. Now, BIO Girls is about young girls, but the concept is the concept and it is about truly honoring the way that you were uniquely created the gifts that you innately have. And being willing to somehow express them outwardly in a way that that beauty is shown to people. And that's all I want for the humans that I know and love, right. Is to actually embrace what makes them special, unique, and different. Yes. And if I get to be any part of creating more of that just overall acceptance on the planet, then that is what I am here to do. So I am grateful to BIO Girls for a existing Right. Being actually deployed in a way that my rural community gets to participate. That's really important to me. And overall that concept of just really, really being cool with who you are and being willing to share it. So thank you for the invitation and thank you for being a part of an important organization like you are.
Dr. Beth Salafia
48:32
Of course. Thank you so much Rebecca, and it was a wonderful conversation. And thank you to our listeners for listening.