Adopting a Growth Mindset in Extracurricular Activities | The BIO Girls Podcast

May is Mental Health Awareness Month.

At BIO Girls, we are committed to helping girls learn about and improve their mental wellness. In fact, mental wellness is one of the four key pillars of the BIO Girls program. During the month of May, BIO Girls Director of Programming and Research, Beth Salafia, will be discussing mental health and wellness topics that are relevant to parents and adolescents in our community.

Dr. Erin Haugen is a Licensed Psychologist and Certified Mental Performance Consultant. She is joining us again for an episode covering growth mindset and tools to help your teen adopt this mindset when it comes to extracurricular activities. To learn more about BIO Girls visit www.biogirls.org.

Thank you to our friends at Bell Bank for making our 2023 Mental Health Awareness Month series possible!

Thank you, Erin!

Show Notes

Dr. Beth Salafia
00:03

Hi everyone. I'm here today for another podcast with Dr. Erin Haugen. Dr. Haugen is a licensed psychologist in Grand Forks, North Dakota. She's the director of Mental Health and Performance Psychology at a Division one collegiate institution, employed at Assessment and Therapy Associates of Grand Forks, and is the founder and CEO of Haugen Performance Consulting. For the past 15 plus years, she's provided mental health and performance psychology consultation services to elite athletes and teams. She also provides consultation to sports medicine professionals, mental health professionals, organizations, and athletic departments as it relates to athlete mental health and performance psychology. So for our second podcast together, Dr. Hogan and I are going to talk about helping teens adapt a gr a growth, adopt a growth mindset in extracurricular activities. I'm very excited to be here and chatting with you again, Dr. Hogan. Thanks a lot for joining me.

Dr. Erin Haugen
00:56

Absolutely. Beth, thank you so much for having me on again.

Dr. Beth Salafia
00:59

Sure. So to begin, what does it mean to have a growth mindset in extracurricular activities? Or what would a teen look like or be like if she had, she or he had a growth mindset?

Dr. Erin Haugen
01:13

I love that question because I think not only is it important to kind of talk about what it is, but I think it's, it's important to think about what that looks like too, right? Because I, I think that a lot of times when we're thinking about what things look like, you know, seeing them evidenced in behaviors is really important. So when I think of a growth mindset, this is usually where there's kind of things along the lines related to freedom to fail, always kind of looking about how we can grow and get better. Feedback is something that's really, we're open to that feedback. We find that feedback kind of helpful and fun. So there's this real kind of environment of freedom, of safety, of curiosity, of growth. And I think I, I just keep coming back to that word, freedom, right? Because I, I think sometimes when we have that more closed mindset or that fixed mindset, it, it can look kind of more fear-based and, and more kind shut down and, and kind of hunkered in. And because sometimes that feedback might feel a little bit threatening or, or scary.

Dr. Beth Salafia
02:21

So you mentioned fear, fearfulness and failure, kind of, I'm gonna combine those ideas and say, how can parents help their teens who are afraid to fail? Like if we, I mean, you think about in sports, a lot of times there we talk about like having that perfectionist attitude, right? And so we're cultivating like a group of, you know, athletes or teens or whatever who, who are afraid to fail or afraid to not be perfect. And so how can parents help teens that are experiencing this in any extracurricular activity?

Dr. Erin Haugen
03:01

Yeah, I, I think probably one of the first things that I think can be really helpful as, as parents, is just even labeling that that's hard. You know, I think that there are so many emotions that can be uncomfortable or scary. You know, fear, failure, disappointment, I, I think is another one. You know, I see that a lot in the, the elite athlete population that I work with. They're very, very driven humans. And, and so the fear of failure is oftentimes driven by that discomfort, feeling disappointed, because that's just an unfamiliar feeling for some people, especially if they're naturally gifted and are naturally good at things. And then they bump into some spaces where they're, it is more of a challenge, and it, they want a challenge, but it's also hard to not always have things come easier or be good. And so I think the first step is as parents is just, you know, even having conversations with teens around, you know, that's hard.

Dr. Erin Haugen
03:50

That's uncomfortable. Being really curious about what their experience is, what's uncomfortable about that, you know, what are some of those, those fears or some of those narratives that they might tell themselves. One of the things that I hear a lot from, from athletes and, and so I work primarily with collegiate athletes, but, but I'll hear, you know, I know my parents, like, they don't put pressure on me. I put pressure on me. And, and so I think sometimes it can be, when we see that in our, our teens or people that we care about, there's that fear of like, wow, am I doing that? Am I putting that pressure on my kid? Or I'm not putting that pressure on them? And sometimes they're very aware that it's, it's actually pressure they're creating themselves. They just, they love their family members so much, so they don't wanna disappoint them.

Dr. Erin Haugen
04:34

And, and so I think that second piece is, is really, you know, just even having conversations around why failure is good, why, why making mistakes is good, why it is helpful, and modeling that as, as grownups and, and as adults, you know, and modeling that, wow, that's uncomfortable, right? It's, it's uncomfortable to stumble or it's uncomfortable to do something silly, or it's uncomfortable to make a mistake. And, and so I think that, you know, they can learn not only from what they hear from us, but also kind of our actions and, and how we model things and we're not gonna get it perfect, right? Because I think even as, as parents, there's like, oh my gosh, I, I wanna model that so perfectly. I wanna model like that, that growth mindset so perfectly. And, and we're gonna forget, right? Like, failure's hard, making mistakes is hard. So sometimes even catching ourselves and going back and saying, wow, you know what, I, I noticed I did X, y, or z I. And so I think just having that as a conversation or, or just a, a dialogue within, within those relationships, I think can be really, really powerful.

Dr. Beth Salafia
05:34

Yeah. I, as you were talking, I was going in my mind off a little bit of a tangent, and you'll just have to humor me here for a second. But, so, okay, let's say I have a friend who has a daughter who, I'm gonna use this as an example because my daughter is in acro, and so she does a lot of cartwheels and she's worked really hard on doing cartwheels, you know, both sides, one-handed, et cetera. But we, she has a friend whose parents say she will only do a right-handed cartwheel, and that's all she'll do, because that's what she knows how to do. That's what she's good at. So how can these parents encour like, specifically encourage their child to try that, you know, left-handed cartwheel, it's not dangerous, right? Or like the one-handed cartwheel, it's just different and she's not good at it, but you and I know that you're not gonna become good at something unless you, well, first of all, you have to try it, right? Right. Second of all, you have to practice it. So she's unwilling to do either of these things. So what advice could you give a parent in that situation?

Dr. Erin Haugen
06:51

That is such a great question. And honestly, if I'm really transparent, I was that kid who didn't like to try new things, right? Like I, I, I was good at stuff and I was like, oh, I don't know. That's uncomfortable. So I, I like, I actually feel that on a very visceral level for, for, for hypothetical kiddo. But, but actually what, where more my mind goes is okay, like, are there things that we can kind of break down, right? Or, or do kind of smaller, so, so maybe not even related to a cartwheel, Hey, how about you try eating with your left hand and instead your right hand if you're right hand dominant, right? So maybe you start unrelated to sport or unrelated to that task or that growth, but you can maybe build in kind of almost like quote unquote silly failures. Like, oh man, my pees fell off my spoon.

Dr. Erin Haugen
07:31

Oh my gosh, they're everywhere. And just kind of laughing and, and having fun and, and having safety around that. You know, starting with things that are small, you know, if, you know, maybe going out and, and trying shooting basket or shooting hoops as a basketball player and, and you know, they're, if they're an acro, you know, maybe that's not their sport, but maybe try, you know, movements that maybe aren't trained and, and the purpose is just to try new things. And, and maybe the parents do it too. Like, oh, hey, we're gonna eat with our left hand tonight at dinner or non-dominant hand at dinner. And, you know, so it doesn't always have to directly be related to that thing that they're struggling with. And, and especially in the sport context, it might actually be helpful to do it unrelated to that, just to start to kind of build some mastery or some comfort around doing things that are uncomfortable.

Dr. Erin Haugen
08:18

And then as you get kind of closer and start moving more toward the kind of the, the acro or the cartwheels and stuff like that, are there ways that we can break it down? So maybe there's a, a skill that might feel a little bit less scary to fail at? And I don't, I, I'm not a gymnastics coach or an acro coach, so, you know, that's maybe where we're even working with like the coach in tandem could be like, what's something that's kind of related, but not necessarily directly related? And kinda work on scaffolding and, and building up those skills as they transition kind of more fully to that full movement is kind of where my, my mind goes about what could potentially be helpful.

Dr. Beth Salafia
08:53

Yeah, I love that. And I just, I love the simplicity of eating left-handed, for example. Cause that's something, I mean, if you have young kids too, and you really wanna develop that growth mindset, like what an easy way to do it, right? Right from the back, like eat with your left hand. I don't, I don't know what, I can't think of anything else, but like few things that are just kind of silly, like right with your foot, I don't know. Very.

Dr. Erin Haugen
09:16

I love it. Yes, exactly. So you're already there, Beth, like, but really, like, and there's something kinda fun about that, right? Like, kids love silly things, right? And like, and, and I think that there's, it starts to kind of make it less scary and almost more fun and kind of more curious around like, hmm, what might happen if I do try that? Right? Because I think what happens is we just kind of get so wrapped up in our head and our emotions and you know, kids have a hard time of sometimes even labeling that stuff grownups do. So, you know, I think sometimes just even being able to kind of just experiment with stuff that's unrelated can be really powerful.

Dr. Beth Salafia
09:51

I'm gonna push you a little bit farther, and I'm sorry for this. I love it. I love it. So some of these cool, fun things like, you know, writing with your foot, eating left-handed, they're great. And like, I wanna try them cuz I'm, you know, I'm like a kid at heart and like, I wanna try and I like failing is not, it is scary, but like I'm okay with it and I'm okay with showing people that I can't sing and, you know, whatever the case might be, but yes. What about like, when you're a teenager and like, I'm sorry mom, but like, it's not cool to eat with your left hand. Like, I'm not gonna do that. That's just too goofy. So what do you do in that situation where like you, you've kind of passed the mark for like the silliness, you know, the, the, the trying and failing and like, you know, you're gonna fail and it's okay and you're like more in that serious, like, I'm a rockstar, I am, you know, an athlete. Like I am not, I am a teenager, everyone's watching me and you know, like, I can't do these kinds of things. So what, in addition to talking to them and having those discussions about risk taking and, and discomfort and failing and, and things like that and, and eating with your left hand, drawing with your feet, what are some ways that you can specifically approach someone who's maybe in high school?

Dr. Erin Haugen
11:11

Yeah, I love that question, right? Because I, because I think right in, in, in a perfect world, we'd all be okay with silliness, but when, right, I I went back to like adolescent me and I was like, yeah, she wasn't gonna do that. No, no, not at all. No, no. You, you know, I think one of the benefits of, of adolescents, right? Is we can, we can also have more conversations with them around stuff. It can be more kind of a, a discussion around, and, and again, it, it might be the parent who's, who's gonna have this discussion. I actually am in the wonderful position of being fun, auntie, actually. So sometimes I'm the safer one to have the discussion. I'm not the parent. So, you know, sometimes I, I have such empathy for parents because I, I like literally see the adolescents being like, oh, really?

Dr. Erin Haugen
11:58

Do we have to talk? Yeah. And so in an ideal world that that would be something that, that, you know, we would be able to do as parents, but it can also recognize that, you know, maybe that's not something they would feel comfortable starting to have that conversation with the parent. Not because the parent's doing anything wrong, but because it's, you know, developmentally appropriate. So maybe if there's a, you know, a family member or a family friend or a coach that can start kinda initiating some of those conversations. You know, I think about like bio girls, that's one of the cool elements of bio girls, right? Like, you have mentors and, and people that, that, that work with, with youth who can, can kind of, you know, maybe have some of those conversations or kind of throw some of those things out there. And so, you know, I think anything that we can do to start kind of poking around to see kind of what are they scared of? And, and you know, I I think when I think about adolescent development and adolescents, it, so much of it is planting seeds and so much of it, we, we really feel like sometimes adolescents are not hearing a dang thing thing that we're saying, but they really are that they really do. And so much of having those conversations is just us having patience and almost like dropping messaging around, you know, maybe if they're not comfortable talking about stuff, maybe they're more comfortable texting about it or writing about it, right.

Dr. Beth Salafia
13:21

Kind of meeting them where they're at. Right?

Dr. Erin Haugen
13:23

Absolutely. Absolutely. 100%. And, and so just even us having kind of a, almost a growth mindset and a flexible mindset around how that's done, I think can be really helpful too.

Dr. Beth Salafia
13:37

Yeah, I I, I absolutely agree. And I, you know, I think that there are different ways that we can communicate with adolescents and I, I like the idea, you know, like, like they, they say too, get 'em when they're a captive audience, right? So like, yes, car from driving home from school, you know, like, you don't have to make that eye contact. You, you know? Yep. There's sitting there, there's nothing else to do. So you might wanna take advantage of some of those time opportunities to just have a quick conversation and then, you know, move on. And another thing that you said earlier that I wanna kind of come back to is being a role model. So, and you said just now that we say things to our teens and we we're not sure that they're even listening in one ear out the other, but the fact is that they do hear and they do see, okay, so what you do as a parent is also affecting what, what they do as a teen too. So if you're afraid to fail, like if you're afraid to, you know, go out rock climbing or whatever, then why would they do it? Because you think you're gonna suck at it. So why would they go and try basketball when they're a gymnast, because they're gonna suck at it too. So really, you know, paying attention to what you say and what you do, I think is a, is really good advice for a parent.

Dr. Erin Haugen
14:57

Yeah. It, it's actually, you know, I think just even some, sometimes slowing down and just even noticing that it, it, it's really surprising actually when we think about doing that as, as adults and as parents. Because I think even myself, where I work on that on a regular basis, I'll even catch myself putting limits on myself and being like, whoa, hold on, wait a minute. It's just part of almost kind of our culture in some ways, you know, I don't know that we always have a culture that rewards failure and mistakes and kind of growth in stuff like that, and in the same way some other cultures might. And, and so part of it, I mean like, there's no judgment, it's just like, that's just the environments that we're in. And, and so I think even us just slowing down and, and just checking in about like, hmm, what, what, how might I be sending the message that I want to, or maybe not want to sometimes and, you know, how could I shift that? And, and us having that growth mindset around kind of what we learn, I think is so powerful.

Dr. Beth Salafia
15:49

I agree. So I'm gonna switch gears just a little bit now, from the fear of failure to more about accepting feedback Yeah. And criticism and what that looks like. So it's hard for most people, I would say, to accept any form of criticism, even with the best intentions. So when we think about teens, especially when it comes to coaching and things like that, how can parents help their teens learn to accept feedback without viewing it as a personal attack or without viewing it as a negative? Because so often we hear, oh, why don't you try this? And it's like, oh man, I'm terrible at this.

Dr. Beth Salafia
16:32

Yes. That's that's where mind goes. And that's not what the code or the teacher or your parent is saying. It's just like, Hey, here's a new strategy, or like, here, try this, you know, this will help your speed or, or whatever it is, but it's not internalized as constructive feedback. So how can we kind of change that mindset?

Dr. Erin Haugen
16:52

Absolutely. I actually, and I might take it a different direction than you might anticipate. Maybe not, I'm not sure. But I would actually start with the emotion behind that, right? Because I think so often, you know, we think about feedback, what will we, and we give feedback and someone doesn't receive it, what do we tend to do? We say it again, but louder. And I think when we see them kind of having that reaction, I think it's also about slowing down and being like, oh yeah, wow. That, that seems like it's, wow, that, that seems kind of frustrating. Yeah, I can see that you're frustrated or Yeah, I can see that, wow, that that doesn't sit quite right. I'd love to know a little bit more about kind of what you're thinking and feeling. And I think the more that we can kind of validate just whatever emotions they're having Yeah.

Dr. Erin Haugen
17:38

Because there's something about that message that felt scary. I, I think so many of these reactions are fear-based. You know, I think, I don't know if we've, we've talked about this before, but, but like angering anxiety are, you know, two sides of the same coin. And, and so some people kind of go more internal, some people go a little bit more external. And so I think just even slowing that down to just even kind of label like, wow, I see you and I see that that's hard. And, and it's so challenging because we, we want to just explain the feedback better and because it's like, oh no, they're just not understanding it cuz it's really good feedback and if I just help them understand. And the, the reality is, is at that moment it's not about logical understanding, it's just about emotional safety. And so I think the more that we can just kind of, again, meet them where they're at regarding the, the emotional experience, I think that that's actually kinda lays the groundwork for kind of opening up.

Dr. Erin Haugen
18:32

And I think along those lines, a phrase that I love to use is, strike all the iron as cold. You know, that moment might not be the best time to have additional dialogue about that, but you can always go back to that when the emotions have settled down, you know, when we're really activated and having a hard time for all of us, right? Like we're, we're gonna hear things a little bit differently, we're gonna see things a little bit differently. And for some reason, or some for some, for some people, the feedback can just kind of activate a, a flight or flight response and, and they're just, they just need a little bit to just kind of settle in and calm down.

Dr. Beth Salafia
19:07

Yeah, that's really good advice. And, and you're right, I think that was taken in a, in a slightly different direction than even think about, right? Cause you're like, just take the feedback. Okay, it's good feedback, right? Just harp, you know, like keep saying it, it's good, it's good. But really, like you said, the moment's hot, like of course it's gonna be interpreted negatively. Of course it's gonna like, they're probably feeling like, oh man, like you're right. Like I know I could have done that better. Like I already know that I was so like why do I need to hear? So maybe just be like waiting for that cool down to have that conversation when they're more receptive to the, the feedback. I think that's a great, a great tip actually for parents to use too. I mean, yeah. When kids, teens, whatever do something wrong, they know it. Yeah. And so sometimes it's not great to, you know, sit there and harp on it and tell 'em, well this is what you could have done better. Right. Since they're already aware of that fact and so they're already heated.

Dr. Beth Salafia
20:14

Yeah, that’s really good, really good parenting. Yeah.

Dr. Erin Haugen
20:20

Well, I I, you know, you had mentioned something too actually about, about like the car rides and stuff like that and, and so I think it's also, you know, even thinking about like post-event car rides and being really intentional around, you know, I actually would recommend, you know, I think car rides home from school and stuff like that. Like they're captive audience Absolutely. Car rides after an athletic event. I actually would talk about other things. Yeah. Because I think a lot of times athletes or or youth participating in sport, that can almost be an anxiety provoking thing because that's where parents are gonna do the debriefing, talk about other things. Like, and, and you can, you can always have that conversation later or maybe a different car ride. But, but I think just let kinda those emotions settle and, and just kind of let the death settle. Cause you, you're spot on Beth, like kiddos, people know, you know, whether they're talking about young kids or adolescents, like they know, like they, they know if they didn't do the way that they wanted to or they know if, if, you know, things didn't go the way that they were hoping. And, and so sometimes we just kinda have to let the emotions settle in and let the process settle down.

Dr. Beth Salafia
21:21

Yeah. I think we all know people, or maybe we are these people ourselves, that it does take a while to process things too. And if you didn't do as well as you thought or as you could, or even if things didn't go as expected, like I, there have been times for me that I come home after, you know, doing an event or, or work or whatever and things just didn't go the way I expected. I'm like, wow, like what just happened? And people are like, oh, how was your day? I'm like, good.

Dr. Beth Salafia
21:51

You know, like that's about all I just say until like 30 minutes later when it all comes spewing out, you know, like, yes. Then it's like I've processed it, I'm like, wow, that was really terrible. Like, here's what I have to say about it. So I, I get that, you know, I, that makes a lot of sense to me. So just maybe as you're driving home, be like, Hey, did you have fun? You know, that's what, yes. One thing that I would like to say rather than like, Hey, how to go, what was the score? I'm like, did you have fun? Yeah. Okay, well let's talk about what to have for dinner now.

Dr. Erin Haugen
22:21

I have a friend, one of the things she always likes to ask is, what did you learn?

Dr. Beth Salafia
22:25

Yeah. Yeah.

Dr. Erin Haugen
22:26

That's great. And you know that, that sometimes or what did you learn or what, what new thing did you discover today? Or you know, like there's just a bunch of different kind of creative questions that we can ask and yeah, focus on growth, learning fun and that's another one of my favorites to have fun or like what, what part was fun or Yeah. That, that's such wonderful information and it helps them reflect on, on other aspects of their experience instead of just performance and achievement. Right.

Dr. Beth Salafia
22:51

Absolutely. Oh man, lots of good stuff here, Dr. Hogan. Thanks. I mean, stuff that applies I think to extracurriculars coaching, like even just like, just life. I mean, just picking up your, your, your child from school, just having a conversation. Like these are all really good things for, for parents and adults to remember. So I would listen to this podcast a few times. It takes some notes, you know, I think it's, it's chocked full of good stuff. So lastly, just for our listener's sake, I was wondering if you had any resource recommendations, any books that you really liked or online sources that we could turn to for more information?

Dr. Erin Haugen
23:34

Yeah, so actually a couple of different resources that I wanted to share with all of you. One is the Association for Applied Sports Psychology. There's a, a page on their website that, that has information for parents, coaches, you know, if, if any of you are also coaches for athletes there, there's just a lot of good information on that website, just kind of breaking down some, some sports psychology, performance psychology concepts, which I think can be really helpful. The other part is if you wanna kinda dive more into the growth mindset concept, the, the, the original book is, or the book that, that we often talk about in sports psychology is written by Carol Dweck called The MI Mindset, the New Psychology of Success. And it's a great read. It's a, it's, it's not an overly academic read at all. It's, it's a, it's well-written, approachable book. So if you wanna kind of dive more into those concepts, I I think that that actually can be a great way to do that.

Dr. Beth Salafia
24:30

That is great. I love that book and I recommend it too, recommendation. So everyone go out and buy that book. You can get it on Amazon or, or the library too. So thank you Dr. Haugen, and thanks so much for another great conversation. It's, it's fun to talk to you. You have lots of great insight. Before we officially say goodbye, I wondered if you had anything else you wanted to add or a a general take home message for our listeners?

Dr. Erin Haugen
24:56

Yeah, and I think this is probably gonna be a similar take home message that I, I used last time or, or, or not. I, I, I have some take home messages that always kind of just resonate with me and you know, I think it just goes back to, you know, just remembering to have compassion and, and you know, you know, not only compassion for, for teens and youth, but I think really importantly for ourselves, you know, giving grace as we're navigating these waters and, you know, emotions and relationships and, and humans, it's all important stuff. And we're gonna stumble, we're gonna bump, we're gonna, we're gonna do it quote unquote wrong sometimes. And that's all of us kinda learning and growing and, and so I think it's, it's just that, that reminder that you'll probably get from me in many different ways over time to really just kinda have some compassion for, for others, but, but really importantly ourselves.

Dr. Beth Salafia
25:48

Yeah, I second that as well. So I like to say too, like, you, you be kind to others but also be kind to yourself. It's very important. So thank you so much for being here. And stay tuned. Maybe we'll have a third podcast.

Dr. Erin Haugen
26:04

There we go, Beth.

Dr. Beth Salafia
26:06

I love it.

Dr. Erin Haugen
26:06

Love it. Well I appreciate you and thank you so much for having me on again.